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Thread: Test only batsmen

  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by twctopcat
    I think the two are discussing the attributes of Cork and White, bringing in Flintoff's stats(half way through his career) is a bit meaningless.
    It is pretty meaningless, although at least it makes some vague sense to comapre Flintoff with White, whereas comparisons with Cork are really a bit dimwitted.

    Cork was never picked as the "all-rounder", but as a bowler who was quite handy with the the bat and could be an effective number eight or so, rather like the currrent specialist number eight, Giles.

    Cork was picked as a main strike bowler, a role in which he only really performed well against West Indies.

    Cheers,

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  2. #137
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    The original discussion was between Flintoff and White, which was brought up by me.

    Cork was then dragged into it.
    ~ Cribbage

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerhair
    It is pretty meaningless, although at least it makes some vague sense to comapre Flintoff with White, whereas comparisons with Cork are really a bit dimwitted.

    Cork was never picked as the "all-rounder", but as a bowler who was quite handy with the the bat and could be an effective number eight or so, rather like the currrent specialist number eight, Giles.

    Cork was picked as a main strike bowler, a role in which he only really performed well against West Indies.

    Cheers,

    Mike
    On the contrary - he was most definitely selected as an all-rounder, initially picked on the back of a single performance with the bat - the 1994 B&H cup final which was probably the first time anyone from south of Watford (media) had ever heard of him. Some of his early appearances for England saw him batting at Number 7, so he was most definitely expected to fulfil the all-rounder role. The fact that he wasn't good enough to fulfil it is again neither here nor there.

    You might as well lump South Africa in with the West Indies too and have done with it, because he took almost 40 wickets against them too.
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  4. #139
    Hall of Fame Member luckyeddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS
    The original discussion was between Flintoff and White, which was brought up by me.

    Cork was then dragged into it.
    Wasn't me - just tried to clear a few 'misunderstandings' up.


  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    White was in because of his batting though.

    Not solely his bowling.
    before the series in pakistan and SL white averaged around 13 with the bat....which is significantly worse than corks. so he was clearly picked solely on his bowling abilities
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  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    Aside from that year, White has only had one other year averaging under 35 (and indeed his 2001 record of 7 wickets at 78.28 in 9 games barely suggest he improved towards the end of his career)
    largely because he sustained an injury before the ashes and despite going up to the selectors and telling them that he wasnt the same bowler that he had been over the last year he was still selected. he ended bowling about 10 mph slower and consequently had the worse series in his life.
    he did however do a pretty decent job in the ashes series in 02-03 with the ball where he showed major improvement throughout that series.

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooextracool
    before the series in pakistan and SL white averaged around 13 with the bat....which is significantly worse than corks. so he was clearly picked solely on his bowling abilities


    Nearest thing we're ever going to get to a statistic, I suppose. Have a party hat.

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooextracool
    largely because he sustained an injury before the ashes and despite going up to the selectors and telling them that he wasnt the same bowler that he had been over the last year he was still selected. he ended bowling about 10 mph slower and consequently had the worse series in his life.
    he did however do a pretty decent job in the ashes series in 02-03 with the ball where he showed major improvement throughout that series.
    No-one has ever disputed the fact that, at the end of his test career, White produced some excellent performances.

    My thoughts were 'about time too'

  9. #144
    International Coach tooextracool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyeddie
    TEC, there's no debating anything with you, because you cannot see anyone else's point of view except your own. .
    seems to be the case with you as well

    Quote Originally Posted by luckyeddie
    The fact that Cork's average, economy rate, strike rate etc as a bowler beats White's into submission however you look at it doesn't indicate that Cork was as good as Kapil Dev - it purely indicates that Craig White was not very good.
    no it shows how much stats overrate cork as a bowler.... the fact that his stats stand beside an outstanding bowler who was light years ahead of him indicates that. i know that you will never understand why i rate him higher but the thing with white was that he was always trying something...he was never out of the game. he could bowl a different ball every over and i still maintain that he was more effective towards the end of his career than cork ever was. he was a good bowler in the sub continent largely because he could get the ball to reverse and consequently offered something different to the attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by luckyeddie
    The fact that the selectors lost faith in Cork is no big deal as far as I'm concerned - the fact that they also kicked White into touch after even less test matches than Cork played tends to be another giveaway too - not good enough. Or can you invent another rubbish excuse?.
    well one thing that you should know....white was injured after that world cup and england decided that they should go in with a younger attack. consequently white was never selected for either ODIs or tests.

    Quote Originally Posted by luckyeddie
    You think that Tendulkar is the most over-rated player ever, and you question MY judgement of players?
    personally anyone can look at stats and come up and tell me oh this guy is better than the other. i wont bring up the tendulkar is overrated argument again but clearly if you are going to base everything on stats then you are either stupid or you are not a very good judge of the game. you can come up with some of your lame jokes here but for me this discussion is over....

  10. #145
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    Whatever makes you happy, TEC.

  11. #146
    International Regular Andre's Avatar
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    Thank you all. TEC, you've come up with some truly astounding points, and you've dug yourself deeper into the hole throughout and all you've been able to do till the bitter end is criticise others for their view. Until you learn that outlandish statements don't cut the mustard, you'll struggle in the often intellectual discussions of the forum.

    On the other hand, others know not to bite back - as tempting and at times excusable it may be. I think we've probably had enough of this thread.
    Last edited by Andre; 01-06-2004 at 07:02 AM.

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