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Thread: A hypothetical scenario

  1. #1
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    A hypothetical scenario

    If I played at international level in T20 internationals let's say hypothetically I contributed the following:

    9 runs to team total per game. An average of around 15 myself with the bat.

    0.5 wickets per game. An average of 45 with the ball and an economy of 9.

    0.5 catches per game. Decent ground fielder. Batting middle-lower order and 4th seamer or 2nd/3rd spinner.

    After 20 internationals I would have 180 runs, 10 wickets and 10 catches to my name.

    I am interested to hear your thoughts on this. When you would expect me to be dropped? What my international rep would be at this point? Would I expect any bids on me in IPL auction (bear in mind I may have an ok record in tests, odis and t20 county level cricket). How highly or lowly people would rate me? If I would be dumped from international cricket how difficult who it be to break back into my international side ? (even if I played decently in ODIs and Tests). Feel free to answer any of your own questions and bring up your own points. This debate will lead to an interesting conclusion regarding international cricket and the IPL that I will save for later.

    Thank you
    Last edited by eempyrean; 29-11-2017 at 11:36 AM.

  2. #2
    International Debutant srbhkshk's Avatar
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    It depends, teams and selectors in general find it difficult to separate ODI and T20 performances, do you have the reputation of being able to crack a couple of sixes when needed? Are you an average+ player in the ODI circuit? Are you a somewhat better bowler in ODIs? If those things are true, you might actually get a surprisingly long rope.

    No one seems to analyse the T20 as a format of it's own and teams very often pay for that. (Dhoni for instance is generally considered a great T20 batsman in general populace, in reality his reputation as a batsman is solely built on ODIs / IPL and he is at best an average T20I batsman, ditto for ABD.)

    On the other hand, if T20 is all you have played, then I'd be surprised how you even got those 20 games.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by eempyrean View Post
    If I played at international level in T20 internationals let's say hypothetically I contributed the following:

    9 runs to team total per game. An average of around 15 myself with the bat.

    0.5 wickets per game. An average of 45 with the ball and an economy of 9.

    0.5 catches per game. Decent ground fielder. Batting middle-lower order and 4th seamer or 2nd/3rd spinner.

    After 20 internationals I would have 180 runs, 10 wickets and 10 catches to my name.

    I am interested to hear your thoughts on this. When you would expect me to be dropped? What my international rep would be at this point? Would I expect any bids on me in IPL auction (bear in mind I may have an ok record in tests, odis and t20 county level cricket). How highly or lowly people would rate me? If I would be dumped from international cricket how difficult who it be to break back into my international side ? (even if I played decently in ODIs and Tests). Feel free to answer any of your own questions and bring up your own points. This debate will lead to an interesting conclusion regarding international cricket and the IPL that I will save for later.

    Thank you
    It doesn't sound very hypothetical to me:

    Ben Stokes | England Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo
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    Quote Originally Posted by srbhkshk View Post
    It depends, teams and selectors in general find it difficult to separate ODI and T20 performances, do you have the reputation of being able to crack a couple of sixes when needed? Are you an average+ player in the ODI circuit? Are you a somewhat better bowler in ODIs? If those things are true, you might actually get a surprisingly long rope.

    No one seems to analyse the T20 as a format of it's own and teams very often pay for that. (Dhoni for instance is generally considered a great T20 batsman in general populace, in reality his reputation as a batsman is solely built on ODIs / IPL and he is at best an average T20I batsman, ditto for ABD.)

    On the other hand, if T20 is all you have played, then I'd be surprised how you even got those 20 games.
    I play tests and odis too. My stats are better in those formats. A can hit a six or two every now and then, but obviously I'm only averaging 15 with the bat , But let's call the striker rate 140 to make things more interesting. Let's say a decent player (above average) in ODIs and good in tests, but a very poor t20 record. I go above 6 an over in ODIs.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuller Pilch View Post
    You're right. Look at what he went for in the auction and his reputation as a player. A world class all-rounder in tests, very good in ODIs. But his t20 stats are actually worse than my hypothetical and I consider them to be very poor for a t20 international player. Without his good record in the other 2 formats it's unlikely he would have got so many games and if he did he'd be considered a write off

    When it comes down to it..9 runs per game, less than 0.5 wickets per game and 0.5 catches per game and 21 games total interests me.

    Can anyone tell me if this is common for all countries and teams. Is there another player with a similar scenario?

    It's usually blockers that can't play limited overs despite great at tests. Or conventional batsmen that can play tests and odis, not t20. It is surprising Stokes doesn't thrive most in t20 as he is a powerful player. He is a wayward bowler, but you'd have thought his batting would be suited to 20 over cricket.

    Not really any point in the thread now, nor your post to be pair. Unless you are Ben himself. I was going to let there be a lot of replies before bringing him up, as a comparison to the hypothetical.

    This thread wasn't meant to be if Ben Stokes will play again or not. I just find his career stats weird
    Last edited by eempyrean; 29-11-2017 at 07:05 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by eempyrean View Post
    If I played at international level in T20 internationals let's say hypothetically I contributed the following:

    9 runs to team total per game. An average of around 15 myself with the bat.

    0.5 wickets per game. An average of 45 with the ball and an economy of 9.

    0.5 catches per game. Decent ground fielder. Batting middle-lower order and 4th seamer or 2nd/3rd spinner.

    After 20 internationals I would have 180 runs, 10 wickets and 10 catches to my name.

    I am interested to hear your thoughts on this. When you would expect me to be dropped? What my international rep would be at this point? Would I expect any bids on me in IPL auction (bear in mind I may have an ok record in tests, odis and t20 county level cricket). How highly or lowly people would rate me? If I would be dumped from international cricket how difficult who it be to break back into my international side ? (even if I played decently in ODIs and Tests). Feel free to answer any of your own questions and bring up your own points. This debate will lead to an interesting conclusion regarding international cricket and the IPL that I will save for later.

    Thank you
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    Quote Originally Posted by eempyrean View Post
    You're right. Look at what he went for in the auction and his reputation as a player. A world class all-rounder in tests, very good in ODIs. But his t20 stats are actually worse than my hypothetical and I consider them to be very poor for a t20 international player. Without his good record in the other 2 formats it's unlikely he would have got so many games and if he did he'd be considered a write off

    When it comes down to it..9 runs per game, less than 0.5 wickets per game and 0.5 catches per game and 21 games total interests me.

    Can anyone tell me if this is common for all countries and teams. Is there another player with a similar scenario?

    It's usually blockers that can't play limited overs despite great at tests. Or conventional batsmen that can play tests and odis, not t20. It is surprising Stokes doesn't thrive most in t20 as he is a powerful player. He is a wayward bowler, but you'd have thought his batting would be suited to 20 over cricket.

    Not really any point in the thread now, nor your post to be pair. Unless you are Ben himself. I was going to let there be a lot of replies before bringing him up, as a comparison to the hypothetical.

    This thread wasn't meant to be if Ben Stokes will play again or not. I just find his career stats weird
    I didn't mean to burst your bubble. T20I stats can be a bit odd - even ABDV only averages 26 in T20Is and he's an absolute white ball batting genius - perhaps the best I've ever seen. Batting averages in T20s can be badly affected if batting below top 4 as you might only face a couple of balls per innings and may have to sacrifice your wicket

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    We are all just kind of waiting for his T20 stats to work themselves out, as it did not too long ago in ODI cricket. In the last two years his batting average has gone from 20 (after 34 matches) to 35 (after 62).

    But with the oddness of T20 stats in both batting (middle order players often have to sacrifice their wicket after not very long)and bowling (death bowlers will have worse economy rates than anyone else, especially if you don't bowl much otherwise) along with him genuinely being less effective in the format means it may never happen.

    Also, his fielding is a real asset, so that kind of explains things a bit more.

    The main reason he sold so high at IPL is because of his reputation though, let's not kid ourselves.
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    He's only played 21 games, and only got out in 13 of them. Cricket is high variance in general, but especially T20 cricket, to the point where that's really not a very statistically significant amount of games at all. He obviously hasn't attracted IPL interest based on his T20I performances, but given that small amount of games and the IPL lies somewhere in between domestic and international T20 in the first place, his comparatively much stronger domestic T20 record and good ODI have rightly figured in, as well as his general strengths and observable skill that people have alluded to.

    I actually think the strangest thing is how few wickets he's taken. He was bound to more expensive than average given England have regularly used him right at the death, but that sort of role also lends itself to some undeserved wickets at times, and he's picked up **** all.
    Last edited by Prince EWS; 30-11-2017 at 04:39 PM.
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  10. #10
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    So we're talking about MVP Ben Stokes...heck his test stats aren't anything to write home about either.



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