Best After The Don

[Satyanash89]

Statistically it has to be Lara, (along with Sachin) played againts the strongest quality attacks, dominating the two greatest spinners ever and the second greatest ever attack and at home and away. He has the greatest match winning innings. Like Bradman he was capable of massive scores and never played for average. Production wise he is second only to Bradman, where Bradman scored (averaged) 134 runs per match, Lara scored 91.

I love him, but I can't quite agree with the bolded part. Totally agreed with everything else

Mcgrath hit him on the helmet

Yeah, and he smashed him for four immediately after
Brian Lara 153* vs Australia 1999 Barbados - YouTube

 

[Viscount Tom]

I don't necessarily disagree with this, but it seems you're selling Dravid a little short here... I don't think it's ridiculous to say he's a better batsman than Barrington... maybe Barrington was better, i don't know, but the gap between them can't be so big as to negate any comparison. A class below Hutton and Sutcliffe maybe, which is why he doesn't feature in the poll, but Dravid is at the high end of the tier below them in my opinion.

Not intending to sell him short, I meant scored more runs than them, although tbh Barrington would take a while to get there in terms of time taken and Sutcliffe was no hare XD.

 

[Geoffboycott]

Goddammit, CW is making an Indian argue against an Englishman that Hutton and Barrington were better defensively than Dravid. This is not right. Some Englishman take this fight off my hand.

Dravid got to 9000 test runs quicker then lara ponting and kallis. and hes not included in the poll.its wrong.hes the 2nd best indian batsman aswell. just pips sunny.i could post plenty of evidence from youtube to back up the fact that dravids the best defensive batsman. you cant do the same with hutton and barrington can you? have you watched them played before? doubt it. so how can you argue against dravid? oh and i am english born and bred you numpty.

 

[Viscount Tom]

Dravid got to 9000 test runs quicker then lara ponting and kallis. and hes not included in the poll.its wrong.hes the 2nd best indian batsman aswell. just pips sunny.i could post plenty of evidence from youtube to back up the fact that dravids the best defensive batsman. you cant do the same with hutton and barrington can you? have you watched them played before? doubt it. so how can you argue against dravid? oh and i am english born and bred you numpty.

By using contemporary evidence, that's like saying "How do we know England won the battle of Azincourt you wern't there!"

 

[Geoffboycott]

By using contemporary evidence, that's like saying "How do we know England won the battle of Azincourt you wern't there!"

no its not like saying that ayt all. but your saying sutcliff hutton and barrington have better defensive techniques then dravid. how do you know that? theres no evidence to show they have. where as dravid theres plenty.

 

[akilana]

Lara did well against Mcgrath and co but two other great attacks - Donald and Pakistanis WWs - of his time kept him quiet. In Australia, he blew hot and cold. He wasn't very successful against India either.

I keep hearing that he won many matches from improbable positions but can't remember many other than the 153. Just curious.

 

[Satyanash89]

no its not like saying that ayt all. but your saying sutcliff hutton and barrington have better defensive techniques then dravid. how do you know that? theres no evidence to show they have. where as dravid theres plenty.

I hate myself for having to point this out, but Dravid averaged below 40 against the two best attacks of his time: SA and Australia. Played some absolutely epic innings against them , but overall, his record against them isn't all that great. Sutcliffe, Hutton and Barrington have impeccable records against the best opponents

 

[Satyanash89]

I keep hearing that he won many matches from improbable positions but can't remember many other than the 153. Just curious.

Well, there was his 213 in the same series which was just as good a knock, to be honest, but yeah... this is definitely a misconception that Lara's fans like to propagate. Lack of support meant his hundreds usually wound up as losing efforts.

His innings definitely rescued his side from the depths plenty of times but in terms of the number of single-handed match-winning efforts go, Laxman definitely ahead of him. Obviously doesn't make him a better batsman than him, but there you go

 

[harsh.ag]

oh and i am english born and bred you numpty.

Now we know you are a troll, so it's fine. But I really want to know what a numpty is. Sounds irish.

 

[Coronis]

Statistically it has to be Lara, (along with Sachin) played againts the strongest quality attacks, dominating the two greatest spinners ever and the second greatest ever attack and at home and away. He has the greatest match winning innings. Like Bradman he was capable of massive scores and never played for average. Production wise he is second only to Bradman, where Bradman scored (averaged) 134 runs per match, Lara scored 91.

The reason he is not my number 2 is because I am not conviced of his batting againts fast short pitched bowling, Mcgrath hit him on the helmet, not sure how he would have feared againt Lillee and Thompson in '75. He was a creative genius and the best batsman of his generation. Brilliant under rated slipper as well, on par with Hooper and just below Richardson in that regard.

Sorry, but this just made my day

 

[kyear2]

Lara did well against Mcgrath and co but two other great attacks - Donald and Pakistanis WWs - of his time kept him quiet. In Australia, he blew hot and cold. He wasn't very successful against India either.

I keep hearing that he won many matches from improbable positions but can't remember many other than the 153. Just curious.

So who to you is number two over all?

 

[kyear2]

Sorry, but this just made my day

Statistically wasn't the best word to use, of course career wise and sheer weight of numbers it would be Sachin.

 

[Red]

no its not like saying that ayt all. but your saying sutcliff hutton and barrington have better defensive techniques then dravid. how do you know that? theres no evidence to show they have. where as dravid theres plenty.

There's a fair bit of footage of both Barrington and Hutton mate.

 

[kyear2]

I rate Hutton so highly that I can't even place Dravid in the same tier as him. I would say that Hutton is the only relatively slow batsman that I rate so highly, but I belive that he was just amazing.

 

[Slifer]

Statistically it has to be Lara, (along with Sachin) played againts the strongest quality attacks, dominating the two greatest spinners ever and the second greatest ever attack and at home and away. He has the greatest match winning innings. Like Bradman he was capable of massive scores and never played for average. Production wise he is second only to Bradman, where Bradman scored (averaged) 134 runs per match, Lara scored 91.

The reason he is not my number 2 is because I am not conviced of his batting againts fast short pitched bowling, Mcgrath hit him on the helmet, not sure how he would have feared againt Lillee and Thompson in '75. He was a creative genius and the best batsman of his generation. Brilliant under rated slipper as well, on par with Hooper and just below Richardson in that regard.

Completely agree with the bolded part and this is further supported by the very few not outs that he accumulated over his career. So many of Lara's innings could have been not out innings and he could have played for his average (ala S Chanderpaul) but more often than not, he was concerned with entertaining (when there was nothing in the match), or protecting the tail and as a result had to hit out and get as many runs as possible!!!

 

[Slifer]

Lara did well against Mcgrath and co but two other great attacks - Donald and Pakistanis WWs - of his time kept him quiet. In Australia, he blew hot and cold. He wasn't very successful against India either.

I keep hearing that he won many matches from improbable positions but can't remember many other than the 153. Just curious.

80 odd not out chasing almost 200 vs Murali and Co at home
213 when WI were 37-4 in the same 99 series after WI were humiliated in the prior test
91 - in '94 vs India. WI one nil down and needed quick runs to set India a challenging target
96- vs Pakistan '93. After conceding 13 runs WI post 390 off after a match winning partnership between Lara and Haynes


All in all I dont think Lara played too many "match winning innings" but what he did do was play many great innings under trying circumstances. He also played innings that had he not,WI would have probably been even more humiliated than they were (SL '01).

 

[the big bambino]

Statistically it has to be Lara, (along with Sachin) played againts the strongest quality attacks, dominating the two greatest spinners ever and the second greatest ever attack and at home and away. He has the greatest match winning innings. Like Bradman he was capable of massive scores and never played for average. Production wise he is second only to Bradman, where Bradman scored (averaged) 134 runs per match, Lara scored 91.

The reason he is not my number 2 is because I am not conviced of his batting againts fast short pitched bowling, Mcgrath hit him on the helmet, not sure how he would have feared againt Lillee and Thompson in '75. He was a creative genius and the best batsman of his generation. Brilliant under rated slipper as well, on par with Hooper and just below Richardson in that regard.

I didn't know that about Lara's run production and its an eyebrow raising stat. I've heard that he was sorted out a few times and seen a couple of egs on youtube. To understate it he won his fair share against short fast bowling too and in a way as domineering as Richards. Would still say that Richards was better handling the short quick stuff but overall favour Lara. I think Lara would have taken wins against Lillee and Thommo. Even without a helmet but definately so with one.

 

[Flametree]

I didn't know that about Lara's run production and its an eyebrow raising stat.

The stat merely reflects the fact that for much of his career the Windies were rubbish and so he very often got to bat twice. He played 1.77 innings per match. Viv played 1.5 innings per match, for instance.

Not trying to say he wasn't brilliant or anything, he was.

 

[honestbharani]

The stat merely reflects the fact that for much of his career the Windies were rubbish and so he very often got to bat twice. He played 1.77 innings per match. Viv played 1.5 innings per match, for instance.

Not trying to say he wasn't brilliant or anything, he was.

yeah but being part of a **** team means you also got to bat in **** situations almost everytime.. And having followed almost every game of his since about 96, I have to say that is very true with him more than any batsman I have seen. He was, for 80% of his career, what Clarke was to Australia during this India tour.

 

[watson]

Mike Coward makes some very good points IMO;

Who's the next-best batsman after Bradman?

By Mike Coward

...........There are, of course, inherent dangers in making comparisons and judgements across the ages, and ideally this debate should always extend beyond a comparative study of the exploits of Bradman and Tendulkar.

That said there are issues that must be addressed given Bradman's conviction that the significance of certain figures cannot be avoided if they are produced year after year against every type of opponent and under all conceivable conditions.

For all his greatness and his mind-numbing average of 99.94, it must be remembered Bradman played his entire 52-Test match career on uncovered pitches at ten grounds in Australia and England, over a 20-year-period ruptured by World War Two. He only toured England - on doctor's advice he was unavailable for the tour of South Africa in 1935-36 - and played at home against England, West Indies, South Africa and India.

As a point of interest Tendulkar's first ten Tests were played on different grounds outside India and completed four months after his 17th birthday.

At the time of writing Tendulkar is in his 24th year in the international arena and had played 198 Test matches on 59 Test match grounds in 14 countries, if you respect the sovereignty of the constituents of the West Indies Cricket Board. He has complemented this with 463 one-day internationals and captivated crowds everywhere with 100 international hundreds and an imposing Test average of 53.86.

These are remarkable statistics that provide some measure of Tendulkar's greatness - figures that would have enthused the Don..........


The Jury's Out: Who's the next-best batsman after Bradman? | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo