indian pace

[Richard]

I agree with most of ur points.But how can u rate somebody who hasn't even played 10 international games? U told about 2 expensive spells..., even the accurate king McGrath is smashed like that in onedayers at times..and if this is the criterion for accuracy measurement, then AA can never be an international bowler.
Zaheer is in much higher level than Prasad. Tinu is a genuine pace bowler and cannot be compared with Kumaran Siddiquie.He is comparable with Balaji.

For me you can make a reasonable judgement on someone's accuracy on about 20 overs. I saw practically every ball of The First Test at Mohali in 2001\02, and Yohannan did not look very accurate to me. Nor did he look as penetrative as Agarkar often does.
I don't, personally, believe Zaheer Khan is any better than Prasad. His Test record, at any rate, is not very impressive aside from that New Zealand tour.
And I don't rate Yohannan or Balaji as international class bowlers.

 

[iamdavid]

What are you fellows impressions of Balaji?

IMO one of the worst international bowlers Ive ever seen , up there with Blessing Mahwire & Khaled Mahmud.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Wrong! Akhter has been successful because he can swing the ball while bowling at 95 +
When Akhter destroyed the Aussie batting order in a test at Sharjah with a spell of 5- 25 or so, Steven waugh siad that there is little a batsman can do when someone is getting reverse swing at such a pace.

Yes, but if he has ever got any conventional swing, I'll eat my computer.

 

[V Reddy]

What are you fellows impressions of Balaji?

I beg to differ you with you on that but his performances till now completely favour you and so no evidence to prove you wrong . He has a good legcutter , slower ball and inswinger. He has also a good bouncer which most often surprises the batsman for pace off the wicket. But his line and length are erratic when he plays big matches . You could have seen the difference in his bowling between the two innings against Aus A. The way he bowled in the second is the way he normally bowls in the Indian domestic cricket. He is far from one of the worst international bowlers. He is neither the best nor the worst but a good one.

 

[iamdavid]

I guess we agree to disagree , I was exagerating when I say he's in the Mahwire / Muhmud class , but I dont rate him.

Time will tell I guess

 

[Richard]

I beg to differ you with you on that but his performances till now completely favour you and so no evidence to prove you wrong . He has a good legcutter , slower ball and inswinger. He has also a good bouncer which most often surprises the batsman for pace off the wicket. But his line and length are erratic when he plays big matches . You could have seen the difference in his bowling between the two innings against Aus A. The way he bowled in the second is the way he normally bowls in the Indian domestic cricket. He is far from one of the worst international bowlers. He is neither the best nor the worst but a good one.

He certainly bowled reasonably well on the India A tour to England.
Personally I've been surprised he's done so terribly as he has, because there are surely worse bowlers who have played. I recently classed him with Yohannan, Siddiqui, Kumaran, Pathan and Bhandari; perhaps he is just a little above that.
His line and length seem to be pretty good at times but someone who goes for 44 off 4 overs has to have bowled pretty poorly. Maybe a poor temperament?

 

[Richard]

What are you fellows impressions of Balaji?

IMO one of the worst international bowlers Ive ever seen , up there with Blessing Mahwire & Khaled Mahmud.

Mahmud is better than Mahwire IMO; he has bowled some good ODI spells in his career. He has accuracy, just no penetration at all.
IMO the worst specialist bowler I've ever seen, as I've said before (and Mahwire doesn't count because he's not a specialist bowler, he's a specialist black player) is K Eric Upashantha.
Surely Balaji must be better than him.

 

[Richard]

Yes, but if he has ever got any conventional swing, I'll eat my computer.

Well, I've had to take that back before (I said "if Australia ever play 5 bowlers again I'll eat my computer - rather a rash statement") and you'll have to take it back or taste plastic, because Akhtar most certainly can bowl conventional-swing. Anyone who can bowl reverse-swing can bowl conventional stuff. Akhtar is more famous for his reverse-swing (just like Wasim and Waqar before him) but his conventional-swing is deadly on the rare occasion he gets the chance to bowl much of it.
He can swing the new ball both ways, just like Chaminda, only he can swing the new ball and the old ball both ways too.
Even Waqar and Imran could only swing the old ball into the right-handers.

 

[iamdavid]

Mahmud is better than Mahwire IMO; he has bowled some good ODI spells in his career. He has accuracy, just no penetration at all.
IMO the worst specialist bowler I've ever seen, as I've said before (and Mahwire doesn't count because he's not a specialist bowler, he's a specialist black player) is K Eric Upashantha.
Surely Balaji must be better than him.

I reserve comment on Mahwire , but yes Upashantha has to be the worst Ive ever seen , Andre & I were debating who was the worst international bowler in recent years & it came down to Balaji , Mahwire , Muhmud , Upashantha.

 

[Richard]

As I say, I really don't think it's fair to Mahwire to include him, it's like counting you or one of your ACT-u15 team-mates. Because you're probably about equal ability.
No-one would have heard of Blessing Mahwire but for the race issue in Zimbabwe. It really isn't fair to deride him like you lot do.

 

[Neil Pickup]

I reserve comment on Mahwire , but yes Upashantha has to be the worst Ive ever seen , Andre & I were debating who was the worst international bowler in recent years & it came down to Balaji , Mahwire , Muhmud , Upashantha.

Salisbury? Dawson?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I reserve comment on Mahwire , but yes Upashantha has to be the worst Ive ever seen , Andre & I were debating who was the worst international bowler in recent years & it came down to Balaji , Mahwire , Muhmud , Upashantha.

Balaji takes buckets of wickets on dead Indian pitches, so he can't be as bad as he has been so far.

Mahwire has definite talent, but no consistency in control.

Mahmud has a clever change of pace, but that is really only effective in ODI's. He doesn't do enough else to trouble anyone.

I've never seen Upashantha.

 

[Craig]

Who's going to be the next spinner, then? Not Wiseman again, please! And please not Brooke Walker either.
I wouldn't say it was wishful thinking that he'd get all 10 if Shabbir got injured and green conditions were produced. The rest of the Pakistani attack is uninspiring at best and Shoaib has been bowling superbly in conditions unfavourable to seam recently. Just imagine what he'd be like in conditions that helped seam and conventional swing (ie from ball 1).

Yes paul Wiseman is the 2nd spinner named in the squad.

 

[Salamuddin]

Balaji's ok -- not test class but I don't think he's the worst bowler I've seen in a touring team to Australia.

I thought he bowled fairly well in that 2nd innings against Australia A and he will learn a lot from this tour.

 

[iamdavid]

Salisbury? Dawson?

I dont think Salisbury was quite that bad , and Dawson reeally bad , but not quite Balaji bad IMO.

If Dawson / Batty really are the 2nd best spinners in England then I think its safe to say spin in England is dead & buried.

 

[Richard]

But they're not - I don't think anyone seriously believes they are.
I would personally not pick either in their county's Championship First-XI. I'd pick both in the National League (and C&G) but neither of them in the First-Class competition.
The reason they have been selected is of course because "you've got to look to the future" and "they're promising" and all that rubbish.
As you say, if Richard Dawson and Gareth Batty are the future of English bowling, Heaven help us.
Fortunately they are not, because no-one can keep picking players who fail solidly, Engand or Yorkshire (as of yet Batty hasn't failed for Worcs). Indeed last season Andy Gray was preferred to Dawson for some time; what a waste of time that was, Paul Hutchison who they released two seasons ago would have been a much better choice. So would the now-also-released Gavin Hamilton.
The best spinners in England, without doubt in my mind, are Robert Croft, Ashley Giles and Jason Brown. Martyn Ball is probably fourth. However none of them are going to be effective on the pitches typically produced at the Test grounds. We've known for a long time that bowling fingerspin in England died with covered wickets, and a good job IMO, too. Nowadays, the only way to have success bowling slow at the English Test grounds is to spin it with your wrists. Some still seem yet to realise this.

 

[Richard]

Balaji takes buckets of wickets on dead Indian pitches, so he can't be as bad as he has been so far.

How do you know they're dead? Have you seen them all? There are some grounds in India (eg Mohali) that regularly produce seaming wickets.
Pitch stereotyping is a perennial evil, disfiguring performance at times.

I've never seen Upashantha.

Believe me, you wouldn't want to. It's a painful sight.

 

[Richard]

Salisbury?

Salisbury's bowling in international cricket has to be the worst for some time (2 wickets for about 400 in his last 6 Tests, both wickets the last to fall in the innings) but that doesn't mean he's the worst bowler to play in that time.
Surely no-one would dispute there are times, long times (eg two years of 1999 and 2000) when he's bowled far better than Dawson will ever do.

 

[Tom Halsey]

He had geniune talent, but really screwed up when he got the chance. For sure, his international record doesn't make happy reading.

 

[Arjun]

About Balaji, he might be using the low bounce of most Indian pitches to his advantage, a lot like many of the dwarfs who open the bowling for Indian FC teams. Why a tall man like him has to do this is a mystery. His record away from home has been disappointing.

Indian 'fast' bowlers have no chance. They all lack the power that has made many a fast bowler threatening. Look at some of their best bowles. Agarkar may be talented, but is very underpowered. Small guys don't scare anyone. Some of the others are struggling to stay fit. The taller ones lack pace. When they bowl on seamer-friendly wickets, they are effective, but on flat pitches, they are TARGETS. Come to think of it, they don't even use 'friendly conditions' well. No doubt some of those places don't really favour fast bowlers, but try telling the selectors and a lot of Indian fans that! why they pick 3 seamers, when there is a better bowler who can't make it because he's a spinner, is another mystery. If the Indians have to win abroad, they have to rely on their spinners a lot more.