New Zealand doom and gloom thread

[Athlai]

The weather being so hot in kiwi summers now may see our conditions change a bit in future

 

[TheJediBrah]

The weather being so hot in kiwi summers now may see our conditions change a bit in future

Things like this make me think maybe global warming is real

 

[straw man]

Thanks Tubbs

 

[NZTailender]

It is genuinely questionable I think given what is known about the Bay Oval surface. It’s the driest most spin friendly surface in NZ (qt least for internationals, and Mitchell Santner played significant roles in NZ’s last 2 wins there. I don’t actually know if Ajaz would’ve made a significant impact. Quite likely, he plays and the game ends largely the same. But it’s I think a tad more of a debate than the “It’s in NZ, play 4 quicks” selectors line of thinking imo.

Makes you wonder if CdG hasn't been drifting away would he have played instead of Rachin and Patel instead of one of the quicks.

 

[Immenso]

Makes you wonder if CdG hasn't been drifting away would he have played instead of Rachin and Patel instead of one of the quicks.

No.

It's the other way around.

CdG has drifted out exactly because Jamieson came along and made a 4-pacer attack.

 

[nzfan]

Didn't know this topic existed... anyways I've asked this question before, let me try again. Those that watched the test match at mount, was Ravindra **** at bowling? Or Bangladesh played him better? Was it really turning square and Rachin couldn't turn a ball? If that's the case I'm disappointed. I backed Rachin's selection over Santner just because Santner bowled not to take wickets but to contain. That is such a backward thinking and I thought Rachin attacked more and could turn the ball. If Rachin is bowling to keep it tight and bowl darts then I have no inclination to back him as a spinner.

The next spinner off the rank likely will be Rippon. I don't think he can bat as well as Rachin but at no.7 don't think it matters. I honestly feel we should stop picking spinners if they don't want to turn the ball. This is of course on the assumption Rachin bowled darts. He was quite good in India, putting good revs but then everyone turned the ball in India. That is not the best of the barometer to judge a spinner. If one can turn on NZ conditions they can turn it anywhere.

 

[Immenso]

I didn't watch a lot. But, he bowled fine when i saw. It was flat at that time of the match.

By day 4 when Mehidy with spin and Ebadot with pace were troubling NZ it was the variable bounce that was the danger. In particular keeping low was what had nz worrued. Bangles could settle into a very Dhaka style of bowling wicket to wicket, knew the fields to set instinctively etc.

Earned that by keeping nz out there, denied us the use of the pitch when flat, made us pay for being too profligate after seeing off day 1 greenness.

 

[Bahnz]

Rachin didn’t bowl badly but his pitch map isn’t consistent enough to build that much pressure.

 

[Flem274*]

Fire Gary Stead.

Fire Shane Jurgenson.

Fire whoever selected Michael Bracewell as a spin bowling allrounder.

Fire David White for only caring about T20 (among other crimes)

Between these guys and the Warriors I do not have the patience as a fan for talented players to give their best 1930s impression.

If people escape with their heads I'm not sure I'm staying. I used lot of my patience with soulless corpoghouls in captaincygate.

 

[slippy888]

Stephen Fleming wants to be New Zealand coach just hire him

 

[Moss]

Staleness has well and truly crept in. There’s definitely a need for some passion to be injected into the side much like McCullum did when he became captain (coaching England now is rubbing it in our faces a bit?).

This is twice the team it was in 2013, Taylor and Watling may be gone and Wagner is almost done, but Conway, Mitchell and Jamieson are solid additions to the side and Ajaz is arguably NZ’s best test spinner since Vettori at his peak. As a team they’ve been getting well and truly outplayed in key moments over the last 8 months. Some vision and imagination needed for sure.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Stephen Fleming wants to be New Zealand coach just hire him

Nah. I do think Kippax has a point about the type of coach these guys need. Someone who’ll enforce some standards ffs.

 

[thierry henry]

Thing is, in a lot of ways individual performances haven’t dropped that much. Like, we annihilated SA and Bangladesh in the tests we won compared to the tests they won, so across those series most players would come away with improved stats despite the overall results being very disappointing. What has happened (which tbf is an NZ tendency we may never have truly shaken) is we are losing every big moment and therefore every game it is possible to lose, even when the likelihood of us ****ing up is like 2%. It’s tactics, effort and attitude more than skills. That should be encouraging really, but it’s not because I think these weaknesses have long been a big part of our make up.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Thing is, in a lot of ways individual performances haven’t dropped that much. Like, we annihilated SA and Bangladesh in the tests we won compared to the tests they won, so across those series most players would come away with improved stats despite the overall results being very disappointing. What has happened (which tbf is an NZ tendency we may never have truly shaken) is we are losing every big moment and therefore every game it is possible to lose, even when the likelihood of us ****ing up is like 2%. It’s tactics, effort and attitude more than skills. That should be encouraging really, but it’s not because I think these weaknesses have long been a big part of our make up.

The attitude has been most concerning for a while. This has been highlighted by the lack of application applied with the bat by otherwise useful batting tailenders. That has been the most visible sign of a shift in attitude. No longer trying to make the most of what we have.

 

[Athlai]

The attitude has been most concerning for a while. This has been highlighted by the lack of application applied with the bat by otherwise useful batting tailenders. That has been the most visible sign of a shift in attitude. No longer trying to make the most of what we have.

The great NZ team like the great Pakistani team, sorta sucks sometimes

 

[NZTailender]

The attitude has been most concerning for a while. This has been highlighted by the lack of application applied with the bat by otherwise useful batting tailenders. That has been the most visible sign of a shift in attitude. No longer trying to make the most of what we have.

There's complacency, or some weird denial. How often does it get trotted out "full credit to x, they played a blinder" type response like - there's nothing actually wrong, we just got outplayed once and we couldn't do anything about it ?‍ it keeps happening, and losing after posting 500+ is unconscionable.

We have a bunch of individually very good players who gel well on a personal level but there never seems to be enough intensity or plans to keep pressure on or toc lose out games. We always seem to have a Plan A and when it doesn't work Plan B is keep trying Plan A until it works.

The great NZ team like the great Pakistani team, sorta sucks sometimes

We're sucking more often though, so now it isn't an exception to the rule - it's becoming a rule.

 

[Bahnz]

Hard to know what to make of Southee's bowling absolutely dropping off a cliff in this game. He's been so good for so long and then all of a sudden bowls like absolute puss.

Honestly don't know how to react or what to say to this. Losing twice in a row after having England 4 down with 200+ needed to win illustrates a real frailty that hasn't shown itself in a long time. NZ are definitely missing Wagner (or at least Wagner as he's been throughout the majority of his career). So often over the years when NZ were looking a bit listless he was the one to rev things up, get under the batsmen's skin and force a mistake against the run of play. If NZ can't find a suitable replacement then we'll see a lot more of this over the next couple of years.

 

[kaetor]

It's inexcusable to not have Wagner IMO. I know people think he's dropped off a bit, but his series averages have been pretty solid still. I don't think any of the other NZ bowlers really ever look likely on a batting favoured deck.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

NZ haven't been the same since they let Rabada actually score runs against them


A crime that warrants trial at The Hauge imo

 

[Bahnz]

Thing is, in a lot of ways individual performances haven’t dropped that much. Like, we annihilated SA and Bangladesh in the tests we won compared to the tests they won, so across those series most players would come away with improved stats despite the overall results being very disappointing. What has happened (which tbf is an NZ tendency we may never have truly shaken) is we are losing every big moment and therefore every game it is possible to lose, even when the likelihood of us ****ing up is like 2%. It’s tactics, effort and attitude more than skills. That should be encouraging really, but it’s not because I think these weaknesses have long been a big part of our make up.

The scariest thing from a long-term point of view was that for so long from 2014-2021, you had that feeling about the NZ team that they'd find a way to win. There was a real optimism and confidence about the way the team played. Now things are rapidly backsliding to the way they were in the 2008-2012 era (though obviously with a much better side) where the team keeps fumbling dominant positions, and the belief just looks totally absent after the opposition have a good hour of play.