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Player of the Decade - Ponting

Johnners

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
didnt see any warnings there
flem 274 called me a tosser where in that thread where is his warning?judge everyone the same thanx or maybe your envious of my FOUNDATION MEMBER STATUS
There is no mention of the word "warning" but the intention of the post is obvious. It's not for you to worry any other members behaviour other than your own, leave the moderating to the moderator team.

I couldn't care less if you joined the forums today, or if you joined 8 years ago. The same rules still apply to everyone (regardless of what you may think), so I'd advise you to heed our warnings and cut the smart arse attitude if you want to avoid another ban.

Anyway, instead of taking this thread further off track, if you've got a problem with something, send an email to moderators@cricketmail.net
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
dont apologise where all different we cant all be alike and when people post rubbish they need to be put inline(not saying that clapo was posting rubbish)
Nah Prince EWS has a point. I asked the same question to Richard regarding Morne Morkel and if some one asks me that question, I would also in all likelihood be offended.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
dont apologise where all different we cant all be alike and when people post rubbish they need to be put inline(not saying that clapo was posting rubbish)
I think there's a big difference between telling someone you think they are wrong (or even that you think what they've posted is rubbish) and just assuming they haven't watched enough cricket because they disagree with you. The former is faith in the way you've constructed your opinion and the latter just comes across as downright arrogant. Obviously you could accuse someone of not watching much cricket if they said that Stephen Fleming was one of the great right arm fast bowlers of the 1950s, but no-one says anything that absurd here.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Nah Prince EWS has a point. I asked the same question to Richard regarding Morne Morkel and if some one asks me that question, I would also in all likelihood be offended.
Haha yeah that's the first time I noticed it. I didn't say anything at the time because I thought Richard, being Richard, had probably said something extremely similar to you about another player the day before or something. :p
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
you idiot warne did criticise ponting,he criticised waugh as well he described them as ordinary, would you also think ponting did such a good job in england?what about the players behaviour aswell which lies with the captains duties aswell as over rates
im afraid you are an aussie who is just as stupid as ponting himself
I know Clapo's already warned you but I thought I'd clarify - the issue here is that you've attacked the member and not the idea. By all means express how ridiculous you think the post and the logic behind it is, but avoid directly calling members stupid. There are other ways to express how much you disagree.

With regard to the posts you made in response to Clapo's warning, someone else doing something wrong in another thread is completely irrelevant to anything you get warned for, so there's no point bringing that up; it's not your concern. Leave the moderating of other members to the moderators and focus on yourself. I'm not going to lie here - we are keeping a special eye on you because you've just come back from what was supposed to be a permaban. If it helps to think of yourself on probation for a while, do that. Don't think of the warning as a demerit; think of it as advice to prevent you from getting banned again.

Anyway I'll stop making posts like this and let the thread resume as the almighty quote war it was. :p
 
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Matt79

Global Moderator
Not really. He batted very well, and was bailed out by Paneser and Anderson surviving in Cardiff, and a ripping spell of bowling by Stuart Broad. Wouldn't have said that he outcaptained Ponting though.
 

Beleg

International Regular
meh

should be kallis hands down really
followed by murali, mcgrath, gilchrist, sangakarra DAYLIGHT ponting et al

fact ponting's won this is bleeding ridiculous. how on earth are his achievements more significant, more amazing or more useful than muralis is beyond me

so mcgrath might kinda sorta grudgingly make *some* sense, but ponting?

disgraceful
 

sasnoz

Banned
I know Clapo's already warned you but I thought I'd clarify - the issue here is that you've attacked the member and not the idea. By all means express how ridiculous you think the post and the logic behind it is, but avoid directly calling members stupid. There are other ways to express how much you disagree.

With regard to the posts you made in response to Clapo's warning, someone else doing something wrong in another thread is completely irrelevant to anything you get warned for, so there's no point bringing that up; it's not your concern. Leave the moderating of other members to the moderators and focus on yourself. I'm not going to lie here - we are keeping a special eye on you because you've just come back from what was supposed to be a permaban. If it helps to think of yourself on probation for a while, do that. Don't think of the warning as a demerit; think of it as advice to prevent you from getting banned again.

totally respect what you say but i feel it could have been sent in private if that is possible through pm or something
 

Johnners

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
From which year did you start watching ODI cricket? I don't think you have seen half of them captain.
Have seen none of Crowe, Haughton or Khan captaining, but just because I didn't see them it doesn't make it impossible for me to make a judgement on their ability.

Anyway, the main reason I disagree with you, is more based on the fact that what Ponting has done as an ODI captain is simply unbelievable. As has been said many times in this thread already, he's lead a team unbeaten through 2 straight world cups, won two champions trophies, not to mention the numerous victories in other 3/5/7 match series. Back to the world cups though, in both tournaments, he's not only been near faultless from a tactical POV, but as an inspirational leader of men, Ponting has been absolutely amazing. From the loss of on the eve of the '03 cup, his ton in the '03 final (IMO the best ODI innings of the decade) to the ruthlessness attitude displayed by the team as a whole throughout in 07, he hasn't put a step wrong.

Smith/Fleming/Waugh/Ranatunga/Crowe etc. are/were very good captains, but afaic they simply haven't a leg to stand on when it comes to comparing their record in the big tournaments compared to Pontings.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Captaincy is one aspect of cricket I never think you can really judge on results. The only data-based way to look at captaincy is in terms of a team wins and losses, and given there are so, so, so many other factors that contribute to the result of the game, I think it's a waste of time trying to look at it statistically at all. The only inference you can make from any win:loss ratio is that if a win:loss ratio is excellent, the captain is not abysmal. No matter how good your team is, if your captain is abysmal you will still perform poorly.. I do think it's quite possible to perform well with a poor captain though, and I definitely think it's possible to perform poorly with a good captain.

Essentially that means you can only judge captaincy through watching captains go about their business and deciding whether you think they are making the most of their resources or not. Unfortunately though this opens up the opportunity for huge degrees of bias from anyone with an agenda or a nationalistic preference.

As far as Ponting as a Test captain goes I think he is a superb leader of men and an average cricketing tactician, which translates into a pretty par captain in the grand scheme of things, depending on what sort of captain the team needs of course. He's precisely the sort of captain you want if you have a lot of quality players with big egos in the team as he's a very uniting figure and the tactics are less important if you have world class players at your disposal who are all committed to the team cause (the latter of course due in no small part to Ponting). I don't think his captaincy is really a particularly big factor in rating him as I do believe a lot of players could do a similar job, but I don't think he's the prank-captain some here seem do. Trying to prove it either way with match results is futile though unless we know what Australia's win:loss ratio would have been under a different captain at the time. There's no way of quantifying how effectively he used his resources without watching him do it.
 
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Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
@ Clapo - I judge a captain according to the maximum output he gets out of his resources more than how many matches or tournaments a captain wins. Dhoni for instance did a great job with India. Ponting is doing a good job now with a side without guys like McGrath, Hayden and Gilchrist but I don't rate his world cup wins that highly. Steve Waugh had to come from behind to win the 1999 world cup. Mark Taylor had a what I would say decent but not great side which he took to the 1996 World Cup Finals. Allan Border build the team. Yes, Ricky Ponting has won a lot and is incomparable when it comes to winning in ODI cricket but Clive Lloyd did the same before him and no one rated him the greatest ODI captain of all time.

I rate captains more on their tactical nous and to what height they take their teams given the limited resources they have. Ponting, for most of his career, has been given a world beating team in an era when the contemporaries were weaker than ever before. His wins have to be discounted a lot IMO which is why I don't rate him that highly.
 

Beleg

International Regular
pratters,

your criteria is far from objective. while objectivity is the distant ideal, yer criteria is inherently biased against somebody like ponting (or lloyd)
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
There isn't much for a captain to do when he has a team like one Lloyd or Ponting had. Give the ball to Marshall or any of the other battery of fast men. Let McGrath and Warne weave their magic.

Waugh had to. He was behind in 99 and a loss away from exit. Imran had to in 92.

What great tests did Ponting face?
 
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