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Once in a Generation Players

Perm

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I'm sick of people telling me that Hadlee was not a genuine allrounder and was just a bowler who could bat a bit. Anyone who can scored the 1000 run/100 wicket double in the 80's was a genuine allrounder.
Ravi Shastri? During the 1980's he averaged 33 with the bat and 39 with the ball, despite making 1000 runs and taking 100 wickets. Would you call him a genuine all-rounder? There is no denying that Hadlee's feats during the 80's were amazing and his statistics back that up (averaging 30 with the bat and 19 with the ball), but you can't exclude 17 years of his Test career and base your judgement on a decade of play.

He hit the ball better than anyway in the NZ team during the time he played. If he hadn't been a bowler he would have been a hell of a batsman, easily good enough to hold his place in the New Zealand team. He averaged 38 for Nottinghamshire and played a number of fine OD knocks. He could play two games, particularly against the spinners - he had a better defensive technique against the mediums than the slows - but the main thing about his batting was the lovely swing of the bat and the clean strikes, especially down the ground. He was a superb striker of a cricket ball. Most batsmen clip it well now and then but he smacked it very crisply most of the time.
His Test average of 27 isn't good enough to say that he would have warranted selection as a batsmen alone, no matter how well he hit the ball. Ball striking is largely irrelevant when judging a Test player, as is shown by Shahid Afridi and Ricardo Powell. Compare them to somebody like Paul Collingwood, who nudges and nurdles around and there can be no doubt whatsoever as to who the better Test batsmen is. An average of 38 for Nottinghamshire is good but Imran Khan averaged 43 for Worcestershire and Kapil Dev averaged 42 for both Worcestershire and Northamptonshire, so that puts it in perspective a bit more.

He was great to watch because you never knew what was going to happen next. Because he really went for it, he gave it a good nudge or missed; he was seldom out playing a half and half sort of shot. The prospect of Hadlee coming out to bat was akin to say Chris Cairns. His 99 against England in 1984 was a fantastic innings to watch - it also won the game for NZ. There were plenty of times when his batting won or contributed to winning games actually. Batting is harder psychologically than bowling so he definitely took the right option in concentrating more on his bowling but if he hadn't he would have been as good as anyone with the bat.
It's all well and good saying that Sir Richard Hadlee could hit the ball hard and time it very well, but that matters very little when judging a Test batsmen if his production isn't as great as some others. Many players have played many fine 'match-winning' knocks, and Hadlee is amongst them, but they don't make a career. BTW, good to see you posting with a fair amount of depth. Not often you make posts of more than a few lines, which is a shame.
 

Perm

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Hadlee was not a genuine allrounder. But then again you can count genuine Test allrounders on...........something with not many digits.......Sobers...Miller.....Botham....................................Imran...............................................................................................................Kapil Dev.
I wouldn't really call Sir Garfield Sobers a genuine all-rounder either, as his batting eclipsed his bowling by far. You could include Chris Cairns on that list too, although he was of a lesser quality than Miller, Imran etc.
 

Fiery

Banned
Ravi Shastri? During the 1980's he averaged 33 with the bat and 39 with the ball, despite making 1000 runs and taking 100 wickets. Would you call him a genuine all-rounder? There is no denying that Hadlee's feats during the 80's were amazing and his statistics back that up (averaging 30 with the bat and 19 with the ball), but you can't exclude 17 years of his Test career and base your judgement on a decade of play.



His Test average of 27 isn't good enough to say that he would have warranted selection as a batsmen alone, no matter how well he hit the ball. Ball striking is largely irrelevant when judging a Test player, as is shown by Shahid Afridi and Ricardo Powell. Compare them to somebody like Paul Collingwood, who nudges and nurdles around and there can be no doubt whatsoever as to who the better Test batsmen is. An average of 38 for Nottinghamshire is good but Imran Khan averaged 43 for Worcestershire and Kapil Dev averaged 42 for both Worcestershire and Northamptonshire, so that puts it in perspective a bit more.



It's all well and good saying that Sir Richard Hadlee could hit the ball hard and time it very well, but that matters very little when judging a Test batsmen if his production isn't as great as some others. Many players have played many fine 'match-winning' knocks, and Hadlee is amongst them, but they don't make a career. BTW, good to see you posting with a fair amount of depth. Not often you make posts of more than a few lines, which is a shame.
What the hell would you know? You never saw him play and have only been following the game for a couple of years. Your opinion means nothing to me and it's obvious that you will just argue absolutely anything I post from now on have have been doing it for a while. Seriously, you're like a flea in my ear and just as significant. You're a serial pest. Bugger off
 

Perm

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
What the hell would you know? You never saw him play and have only been following the game for a couple of years. Your opinion means nothing to me and it's obvious that you will just argue absolutely anything I post from now on have have been doing it for a while. Seriously, you're like a flea in my ear and just as significant. You're a serial pest. Bugger off
8-)

If you can't handle people disagreeing with you, then CW probably isn't the place for you. Never once did I attack you and my post contained no malice, I was genuinely interested in having a discussion.
 

Fiery

Banned
Sorry everyone else who had to hear that but I'm sick of Perm following me round every thread making snide remarks and reporting another I say. The post I responding to here probably didn't warrant that reaction but I find it hard to stomach any NZ youngster who never witnessed Hadlee play berate him, especially one with an Adam Gilchrist avatar. Really tired of this crap tbh
 

Fiery

Banned
8-)

If you can't handle people disagreeing with you, then CW probably isn't the place for you. Never once did I attack you and my post contained no malice, I was genuinely interested in having a discussion.
I know you will be fuming about the thread you started about your behaviour backfiring so spectacularly and losing the Perm v Fiery poll :p but just put me on ignore would you?
 
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neville cardus

International Debutant
I found it interesting that there appears to always be one player of each generation that is clearly above all the rest…..
.....So, I thought I’d list the Aussie Batsmen who have passed the “baton of greatness”
1899-1912: Victor Trumper (debut at age 21)
Stick Billy Murdoch and maybe Syd Gregory in before Trumper to make the list more comprehensive.

[...] And the once in a generation Aussie Pace Bowlers....
Off the top of my head, and taking a few liberties on the "pace bowlers" qualification...

1876-1887: Fred Spofforth
1887-1895: Charlie Turner
1895-1902: Ernie Jones
1902-1912: Tibby Cotter
1921-1921: Ted McDonald
1922-1928: Jack Gregory
1929-1934: Tim Wall
1935-1939: The Drought

1946-1960: Ray Lindwall (24)
1953-1963: Allan Davidson (23)
1961-1971: Graham McKenzie (19)
1971-1984: Dennis Lillee (21)
1984-1996: Craig McDermott (19)
1993-2007: Glenn McGrath (22)
 

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