Dhoni Captain of Indian ODI side.

[shortpitched713]

He meant test captain, I'd be guessing. I'm fairly sure SS doesn't really care either way who the one day captain was.

Hmm... I may have jumped the gun a bit, but it is one delightful step closer. If it does happen, I'd be tempted to quote the relevant portion of SS's post so he'd have to remember it for the rest of his ill-deserved life.

 

[SJS]

Hmm... I may have jumped the gun a bit, but it is one delightful step closer. If it does happen, I'd be tempted to quote the relevant portion of SS's post so he'd have to remember it for the rest of his ill-deserved life.

 

[honestbharani]

It's obviously a bit of a risk but also, I guess the selectors were pushed to this corner. Would be interesting to see if Mahi gets the guts to play himself purely as a batsman and an occassional bowler if he feels that the responsibilities are too much. My guess is HE WON'T, because Karthik, as we all have seen, is a very good keeper and the jury is still out on Mahi as a test class batsman... He will want to make sure he is a regular player first...

Just hope that the risk pays off for India really, although I do get the feeling that a lot of this has been brought upon India by its own board and its selectors, senior players and just about all stake holders... I get the feeling that no one realy cared to put Indian cricket nand its welfare above their own welfare, even though none of the big stakeholders were exactly gonna become paupers overnight if they lost their jobs...

 

[Arjun]

Dhoni as captain- Good move, despite the dicey proposition of having a wicketkeeper-batsman as a captain. Looking at his batting in the recent past, gone is the berserk hitting with which he made an entry. He's now batting like a proper batsman, and scores more between the 22 yards than over the fence. He's got good cricketing intelligence, and that will make him a good choice. While a wicketkeeper-batsman as captain has to shoulder three responsibilities, he will also be in the thick of things, being in the middle of the scene.

Indian main team Selection- Checkered call here. It's good to see Irfan and Harbhajan back, but a pity that Powar and Ganguly, both liabilities on the field, still stay. Powar may be in the wickets and Ganguly in the runs, but the modern game isn't only about scoring runs and taking wickets. It's about creating total value, which they haven't. Rohit Sharma is very unlucky to miss out. Rather than one 'opener' too many, he's a good bet in the middle-order and in the field. With none of the batsmen capable of bowling, Yusuf Pathan should have made the XI. Choosing three of Zaheer, Irfan, RP Singh and Sreesanth will be tough, especially with Irfan back, so they've got something right here. Praveen Kumar is once again very unlucky. Does he have to shift to Mumbai or Delhi to make the national team?

 

[SJS]

Does he have to shift to Mumbai or Delhi to make the national team?

Agree with a lot of what you say but this last bit seems to suggest you arclaiming a bias in favour of Mumbai and delhi cricketers.

Lets check. The cricketers dropped

- Agarkar : Mumbai
- Munaf : Mumbai
- Rohit Sharma - Mumbai

Which Delhi cricketer is in the side Gambhir. Has he not done enough to retain his place. In fact Sehwag the other Delhi player many expected will come back hasnt. The other Delhi player who went to England is already out of the side.

The past captain was from Karnataka and the replacement is from Jharkhand not Delhi or Mumbai.

The fielding coach is from Tamil Nadu.

The bowling Coach is from Karnataka

Where is the bias you seem to suggest ?

 

[honestbharani]

Agree with a lot of what you say but this last bit seems to suggest you arclaiming a bias in favour of Mumbai and delhi cricketers.

Lets check. The cricketers dropped

- Agarkar : Mumbai
- Munaf : Mumbai
- Rohit Sharma - Mumbai

Which Delhi cricketer is in the side Gambhir. Has he not done enough to retain his place. In fact Sehwag the other Delhi player many expected will come back hasnt. The other Delhi player who went to England is already out of the side.

The past captain was from Karnataka and the replacement is from Jharkhand not Delhi or Mumbai.

The fielding coach is from Tamil Nadu.

The bowling Coach is from Karnataka

Where is the bias you seem to suggest ?

Well, SJS, if he did have "regional bias" in his mind when he made that post, then I would agree with you.


But knowing Arjun, I think his point was that Praveen Kumar doesn't play for any of the "big/glamour" sides like Delhi/Mumbai/Karnataka/Tamil Nadu and such... He plays for UP... I don't really agree with him, esp. seeing how many other UP cricketers are in and around the national side...

 

[adharcric]

With none of the batsmen capable of bowling, Yusuf Pathan should have made the XI. Choosing three of Zaheer, Irfan, RP Singh and Sreesanth will be tough, especially with Irfan back, so they've got something right here. Praveen Kumar is once again very unlucky. Does he have to shift to Mumbai or Delhi to make the national team?

Praveen Kumar and Yusuf Pathan are not unlucky to miss out. Both got the A team call-up and deservedly so, but neither of them exactly lit the scene on fire on that tour. No idea why Praveen Kumar isn't playing in the ongoing India A - South Africa A match though. He is certainly the best genuine all-round prospect in India after Irfan Pathan and Joginder Sharma, both of whom are in South Africa for the Twenty20 WC.

By the way, Praveen Kumar no longer represents UP. He recently transferred to Railways along with a few others.

 

[SJS]

Well, SJS, if he did have "regional bias" in his mind when he made that post, then I would agree with you.

.

I was not sure what exactly he was saying that why I said "you seem to suggest" > But you are right.

You know there are definitely peo[ple around who are 'Bombay-centric' and who are powerful but the selectors have been doing a fairly good job for some time now. More than supporting just one regin their may still be the odd, 'you vote for my fringe player and I will vote for yours" thing going on. Thats why giving the skipper a say and having him sit in the meetings is so important.

 

[Richard]

What .... what .... what ??

I haven't a clue what you are saying.

I havent said a word (or hinted at) about Karthik's batting abilities.

You hinted at Karthik being established as a ODI player.

Something I don't believe to be remotely likely.

 

[Richard]

No, rather this guy.

Aha, mistook the issue. Thought we were on about Agarkar being dropped, not Dhoni being made captain.

 

[honestbharani]

You hinted at Karthik being established as a ODI player.

Something I don't believe to be remotely likely.

He meant established as a keeper-batsman, which he could well be if he maintains his current ODI average and his form when he was the keeper earlier..

 

[Richard]

You think Karthik averaging in the low 20s could establish himself as any form of batsman?

 

[Nishant]

i personally dont see Karthik as an ODI batsman TBH...id much rather see him perform well in test matches and do well for india in that format...he seems settled in tests. As for ODIs...we have other talented batsmen who are more specialised in ODIs, even if they are not good in tests.

 

[SJS]

You hinted at Karthik being established as a ODI player.

Something I don't believe to be remotely likely.

NO.

I said that if karthik startskeeping wickets (which I think he should as he is the better keeper and both he and Dhoni are in the XI anyway) then he may become a permanent keeper because he is so good (as a keeper).

Not as batsman !

 

[Richard]

But wicketkeepers can't play just because of wicketkeeping ability.

 

[SJS]

But wicketkeepers can't play just because of wicketkeeping ability.

I have a difference of opinion.

In any event we arestarting with a position where both are in the side. So.

1. Karthik's batting is of acceptable level.

2. Then Dhoni decides (for his own reasons lets say) to concetrate on captaincy and lets Karthik keep wickets.

3. Karthik does a fantastic job as keeper and even those who did not realise how much better he was as a keeper now get to see it over a prolonged period of time. Besides he continues to contribute reasonable as a batsman (primarily a keeper).

4. In this situation, if Dhoni finds he loses batting form, there would be a problem. Would he then ask Karthik to give the keeping gloves back to the skipper?

That would be awkward.

This is what I was trying to say.

And Richard.

I have explained what I was trying to say. If you still want to have the last word on this go ahead and have a zillion. I am tired

 

[Richard]

Well sooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry.

I don't ever see Karthik getting established in the ODI side. There must be better one-day wicketkeeper-batsmen around India (apart from Dhoni) than him.

 

[SJS]

Well sooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry.

I don't ever see Karthik getting established in the ODI side. There must be better one-day wicketkeeper-batsmen around India (apart from Dhoni) than him.

I know. I am not very fond of this new craze for Karthik as batsman.

I like Parthiv and I do feel he was goingthough a bad period as a keeper and should have been dropped. By continuing with him mule-headedly Ganguly just made the kid go to pieces. He is also a very good batsman. He showed it against both Pakistan and Australia, in tests, and in their countries.

After that I dont know.

BTW, Dhon's keeping is todayimproved over what it was when the tour to Englad started. It can be seen very clearly. His movements and getting up with the ball has improved considerably. I am convinced he has been talking to some keeper in England. There are so many good keepers in England.

If he continues improving, there is no reason why he may not continue. This too much pressure thing as captain, keeper and batsman he will have to live with. Otherwise we should get someone else to lead the side.

 

[Richard]

Almost every wicketkeeper struggles on their first tour to England. I wasn't about to judge Dhoni harshly because of that.

I've often found he gets unfair flak in any case - many people habitually talk down a wicketkeeper's wicketkeeping if he can bat. It's so, so annoying.

 

[SJS]

Almost every wicketkeeper struggles on their first tour to England. I wasn't about to judge Dhoni harshly because of that.

I've often found he gets unfair flak in any case - many people habitually talk down a wicketkeeper's wicketkeeping if he can bat. It's so, so annoying.

Oh no. He was very bad. Even keeping in India. He should never have kept for India once we knew we had a keeper like Kaarthik.

His defects in keeping were obvious to anyone who has a knowldge of keeping techniques. But he has improved. He is still not great but the improvement is significant and hi movements are much more spontaneous.

I don't think people talk down a keepers keeping. Infact most people know very little about keeping. People judge a keeper by how many catches he takes or how he dives and comes up with one handed catches standing back.

Keeping is much more than that. This is the easier part of keeping.

You can tell a good keeper after half an hour of keeping standing up to a spinner who has some variation without his having takes a catch or effecting a stumping or diving even once.