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Thread: *Official* South Africa in Pakistan

  1. #151
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Mr Mxyzptlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    So your solution is to yet again drop an opener who has just had two good series and one bad one? Pakistan gives up on openers too quickly because everyone has different opinions on who should be there.
    It can be argued that Butt was dropped allowing Hafeez to get his chance. In terms of chickens and eggs, one of them comes first and he should be given a proper run.
    And Butt has always looked far more convincing than Hafeez. Admittedly I'd interchange Hafeez and Umar, but I think Butt needs to be there.
    Sreesanth said, "Next ball he was beaten and I said, 'is this the King Charles Lara? Who is this impostor, moving around nervously? I should have kept my mouth shut for the next ball - mind you, it was a length ball - Lara just pulled it over the church beyond the boundary! He is a true legend."


  2. #152
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Mxyzptlk
    It can be argued that Butt was dropped allowing Hafeez to get his chance. In terms of chickens and eggs, one of them comes first and he should be given a proper run.
    Two wrongs don't make a right though. Dropping Hafeez for Butt doesn't suddenly undo the wrong decision to drop Butt for Hafeez/Farhat in the first place. I'm sure there will be selectors who believe Butt should have been given an extended run and will be trying to get him back in there at the first sign of failure from Hafeez, but that's precisely why Butt was dropped in the first place - there would have been someone claiming Imran Farhat should be back in the team at the time.

    We all have our personal preferences on the Pakistan opening problem as they've tried a whole bunch of players who are all reasonably equal. But I'll honestly be happy if they just pick a pair and stick with them for a little while instead of playing musical chairs with them. Hafeez should not be dropped. There is an open place now given that Farhat has left Pakistan cricket, and that should go to Butt or Umar. I don't really mind which one, as long as they don't get dropped again after one series.
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  3. #153
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Mr Mxyzptlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Two wrongs don't make a right though. Dropping Hafeez for Butt doesn't suddenly undo the wrong decision to drop Butt for Hafeez/Farhat in the first place.
    It's not about righting wrongs. It's about Butt being a better longterm option than Hafeez, IMO. And as I said, it's really more down to Taufeeq and Hafeez battling for the second opener spot. That's how convinced I am that Butt should be opening the batting in Tests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Hafeez should not be dropped.
    And Butt shouldn't have been dropped. There's no right or wrong here. It's all about preference, as you've said. So I don't see how dropping Hafeez to give a lifeline to Butt is any better than continuing with Hafeez and denying Butt that chance.

  4. #154
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Mxyzptlk
    So I don't see how dropping Hafeez to give a lifeline to Butt is any better than continuing with Hafeez and denying Butt that chance.
    Because it'd be making the same mistake yet again: dropping a player after one bad series after realising that the last player you dropped perhaps shouldn't have been. If Hafeez was dropped for Butt, Butt would probably have two good series and one bad one, and then people would say "Pakistan's openers are dire. Why did they drop Hafeez again?" - and the cycle would continue. If I was picking the team right now, I'd probably open with Butt and Hafeez anyway, so it is somewhat of a mute point for mine.


  5. #155
    International Captain Pup Clarke's Avatar
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    TBH I'd go back to the opening combination that did well against England in 05/06, meaning...

    Butt
    Malik
    Younus
    Yousuf
    Inzamam (has he retired?)
    Hameed
    Akmal
    Shoaib
    Gul
    Asif
    Kaneria
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  6. #156
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Mxyzptlk View Post
    Why does it matter that they've been dire? My response was stating that he's not actually better than them.
    Well I was merely stating that they've all three been equally awful TBH.
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  7. #157
    Hall of Fame Member TT Boy's Avatar
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    Test squad

    South Africa: Graeme Smith (captain), Hashim Amla, Mark Boucher, AB de Villiers, JP Duminy, Herschelle Gibbs, Paul Harris, Jacques Kallis, Morne Morkel, Andre Nel, Makhaya Ntini, Shaun Pollock, Ashwell Prince, Dale Steyn.

    No surprises. Although, SuperSport were incorrect in the McKenzie claim, he doesnít even make the 14, neither does Human and Pollock isnít 'rested', as they suggested he would be.
    Last edited by TT Boy; 20-09-2007 at 08:24 AM.

  8. #158
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    "Human"?

  9. #159
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    "Human"?
    Dippenaar.

  10. #160
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Aha. Read it as "hyoomun" not "hoomaan".

  11. #161
    International Regular shortpitched713's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    What makes you think Yousuf is any chance of playing at all, by the way? I thought it was completely established that he was going to the ICL and hence would not be selected for Pakistan at all. Razzaq announced his retirement as well, did he not?
    Forgot about Razzaq being ICL when I was thinking of who to replace Shoaib with. And there still might be a chance that a last minute deal can be made with Yousuf, if not all of the ICL players. Probably won't happen when the South Africa series comes around, but I'm fairly confident we'll at least have Yousuf back by the time of the series against India.
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  12. #162
    International Regular shortpitched713's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Mxyzptlk View Post
    I'd give Butt a proper run at Test cricket and let him open with Umar. Then drop Malik down the order.

    Salman Butt
    Taufeeq Umar
    Yasir Hameed
    Mohammad Yousuf - MUST bat at 4, IMO.
    Younis Khan
    Shoaib Malik
    Kamran Akmal (wk)
    Shoaib Akhtar
    Umar Gul
    Danish Kaneria
    Mohammad Asif

    I'd much prefer that lineup. Because I have a lot more faith in Butt scoring in tough conditions than Afridi. And also I think you need specialist openers for Tests. Pakistan gives up on openers too quickly. But that goes without saying.
    Butt has been pretty dire in Test matches, but I wouldn't necessarily be against giving him another run. And Younis batting at 5 is pretty much unprecedented. Hmm.. I'm not certain, but I'm pretty Yousuf has batted at 5 recently and I don't think it really seemed to affect him. Ditto with Younis batting at 4.

  13. #163
    International Regular shortpitched713's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Mxyzptlk View Post
    In terms of chickens and eggs, one of them comes first and he should be given a proper run.
    Go back to Nazir, I say!


  14. #164
    International Regular shortpitched713's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortpitched713 View Post
    I'm not certain, but I'm pretty Yousuf has batted at 5 recently and I don't think it really seemed to affect him. Ditto with Younis batting at 4.
    They did it in SA recently. Younis averaged 36.2 from 5 innings, and Yousuf averaged 37.75 from 4. Hm... maybe it would be better to stick with them at 3 and 4.

  15. #165
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Mr Mxyzptlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Because it'd be making the same mistake yet again: dropping a player after one bad series after realising that the last player you dropped perhaps shouldn't have been. If Hafeez was dropped for Butt, Butt would probably have two good series and one bad one, and then people would say "Pakistan's openers are dire. Why did they drop Hafeez again?" - and the cycle would continue. If I was picking the team right now, I'd probably open with Butt and Hafeez anyway, so it is somewhat of a mute point for mine.
    But I think keeping Butt out of the team is an equally bad mistake. Again, I reiterate, I'm not calling shots between Butt and Hafeez. At most it comes down to Taufeeq or Hafeez in my mind. And I'm not arguing that one is better than the other. All I'm arguing is that Butt has to play Tests.

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