**Official** England in New Zealand

[Flem274*]

I think this debate about the no.6 position is not really needed. Oram should be no.6 i.m.o. He should take extra responsibility as a batsman, not just a basher at no.7 or 8.

Who goes number 7 then? Not McCullum, not when we've actualy found an opening partnership that scores runs!

 

[Mixmasterreece]

In case you are wondering my preffered teams are:

Tests:

Bell
How
Sinclair
Fleming
Fulton
Oram
McCullum
Vettori
Franklin
Mills
Martin/Gillespie (Bond if available)

ODI:

McCullum
How
Taylor
Fulton
Styris
Hay/Houpapa/maybe Flynn in the future/someone with potential no Marshall, Hopkins, etc
Oram
Vettori
Adams
Mills
Mason/Scott/Thompson depending on his List A experience, I'm not entirely sure how much hes played.

Can't complain with many of your selections.... but Scott, Mason and Thompson ?? Say it aint so.

Playing selector for the home series against the poms Id go with :

Tests :
Bell
How
Sinclair
Fleming
Fulton
Oram
McCullum
Vettori
Adams
Mills
Martin

* If Sinclair fails in the first 2 outings then I would give Styris a run, although would be tempted with Hay.

ODI:
McCullum
How
Taylor
Fulton
Styris
Ryder
Oram
Vettori
Adams
Mills
Gillespie.

It's time to start getting this NZA team playing again. The poms come here and play canterbury, when we could certainly give some of our promising players of the ilk of Hay, Weston, Flynn, Southee, Guptil, Hiini, Ryder etc valuable experience .....

 

[Brett Dale]

With No Bond, we are screwed, but here is my 11 anyway.

Bell
How
Fleming
Taylor
McCullum
Oram
Vettori
Gillespie
Adams
Mills
Martin

Its heavy on the bowling side, but we need wickets without Bond.

 

[Mixmasterreece]

and screw it a twenty20 team to play the poms :

McCullum
Vincent
Taylor
Ryder
Styris
Flynn
Oram
Vettori
Adams
Mills
Southee

 

[completeNZer]

and screw it a twenty20 team to play the poms :

McCullum
Vincent
Taylor
Ryder
Styris
Flynn
Oram
Vettori
Adams
Mills
Southee

Top team mate (for the T20's) but How for Vincent I think he's great but it's always the same story with him.

BTW also watch for BJ Watling he's an opener I also like Martin Guptill

 

[NZTailender]

Top team mate (for the T20's) but How for Vincent I think he's great but it's always the same story with him.

BTW also watch for BJ Watling he's an opener I also like Martin Guptill

How averages 39 in domestic T20, with a sr of 139. Deserves a shot.

I'd have:

1. How
2. McCullum
3. Taylor
4. Fulton
5. Styris
6. Vincent
7. Oram
8. Vettori
9. Mills
10. Gillespie
11. Patel

 

[completeNZer]

Was watching the T20 yesterday and one of the commentators was talking about always having Jeetan Patel in the team.

ODI

1. McCullum
2. How
3. Taylor
4. Styris
5. Fulton
6. Oram
7. Vettori
8. Mills
9. Patel
10. Gillespie
11. Martin

And it got me wondering why has this team never really been considered? Just get the groundsman to make dry pitch.

And when Franklin comes back Gillespie or Martin out

 

[James]

Far too light on the batting for mine completeNZer.

You couldn't possibly have Vettori coming in at 7 IMO.

 

[Flem274*]

Was watching the T20 yesterday and one of the commentators was talking about always having Jeetan Patel in the team.

ODI

1. McCullum
2. How
3. Taylor
4. Styris
5. Fulton
6. Oram
7. Vettori
8. Mills
9. Patel
10. Gillespie
11. Martin

And it got me wondering why has this team never really been considered? Just get the groundsman to make dry pitch.

And when Franklin comes back Gillespie or Martin out

Gillespie and Martin don't deserve to be in our ODI team. Mason and Adams are far better bowlers than they at limited overs. So is Paul Hitchcock and Ewen Thompson.

An interesting point was raised by the commentators during the domestic game with regards to the test pitches. They say that because we have two test class spinners (I'd say three: Bruce Martin) and Monty Panesar hasn't been great lately that we should prepare spin friendly pitches and play two spinners. It would also take the dangerous English swing bowlers like Hoggard out of it a bit and the left armer Sidebottom as in recent years NZ batsmen have ben prone to good left arm seamers. I like the idea of nullifying Hoggard and Sidebottom. Who else is bowling? Is it the usual Hoggard, Harmison, Sidebottom, >insert bowler here<, Panesar?

 

[Flem274*]

With No Bond, we are screwed, but here is my 11 anyway.

Bell
How
Fleming
Taylor
McCullum
Oram
Vettori
Gillespie
Adams
Mills
Martin

Its heavy on the bowling side, but we need wickets without Bond.

If you hadn't had your user name as (presumably) your real name I would have suspected you were Doug Golightly.

I presume thats a test XI because you have Fleming in there and I'm sorry but that is a mess. The top three are fine but Taylor is not test class, McCullum is not a number five, Vettori is not a number seven, Adams is a better bat than Gillespie too. And I also have confidence an attack of Martin, Mills, Gillespie, Oram and Vettori can get 20 wickets.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Gillespie and Martin don't deserve to be in our ODI team. Mason and Adams are far better bowlers than they at limited overs. So is Paul Hitchcock and Ewen Thompson.

Get a grip Phlegm. Ewen Thompson and Paul Hitchcock?? PAUL HITCHCOCK?? Better bowlers than Gillespie and Martin. I presume you aren't just looking at first class averages and lining up all those players that appear to have been stats than the incumbents. Hitchcock is an appalling bowler

Adams has the trickery to make him an effective bowler, but... and this is an important but... so did Ronnie Irani. Adams = Irani. Very similar players, though Irani was a superior batsman, especially in his later years. Even as a better player, Irani was still embarrassing at times for England and Adams would prove equally hot and cold. Some days his variations and power hitting will come off and he'll look exceptional whilst others you'll be watching him play whilst hiding behind your hands in shame.

EDIT: Interesting to see you've picked up on Mark Houghton for your future test XI. I'm pleased with myself that I mentioned him before he'd played a game for Wellington.

 

[Flem274*]

Get a grip Phlegm. Ewen Thompson and Paul Hitchcock?? PAUL HITCHCOCK?? Better bowlers than Gillespie and Martin. I presume you aren't just looking at first class averages and lining up all those players that appear to have been stats than the incumbents. Hitchcock is an appalling bowler[/QUOTE}

Paul Hitchcocks international career wasn't bad, I know I'd rather he than Martin and defnitely over Gillespie in ODIs. Thompson surely must be able to do a beter job as well. In tests I wouldn't have them over the current bowlers however.

Adams has the trickery to make him an effective bowler, but... and this is an important but... so did Ronnie Irani. Adams = Irani. Very similar players, though Irani was a superior batsman, especially in his later years. Even as a better player, Irani was still embarrassing at times for England and Adams would prove equally hot and cold. Some days his variations and power hitting will come off and he'll look exceptional whilst others you'll be watching him play whilst hiding behind your hands in shame.

I do realize that, Jayasuria I think it was destroyed him in a game last year. But can you seriously look at Martin and Gillespie and say "I'm proud to have them in the NZ one day team"? I can't. Test team certainly but i don't rate them at all in ODIs. I'd rather even Ian Butler.

 

[Flem274*]

EDIT: Interesting to see you've picked up on Mark Houghton for your future test XI. I'm pleased with myself that I mentioned him before he'd played a game for Wellington.

Indeed a good pick by you. Every time I turn on the radio I hear he's done well for himself. Sadly haven't seen him on the telie yet but I hope to do so and I trust your judgement on bowlers...most of the time

 

[Smudge]

I wonder if Flem saw Hitchcock bowl on TV in the Twenty20 against Wellington the other day...

 

[Flem274*]

I wonder if Flem saw Hitchcock bowl on TV in the Twenty20 against Wellington the other day...

Yes I did

The first over was shocking but the second was OK. He's definitley better than what he showed in that game.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

I do realize that, Jayasuria I think it was destroyed him in a game last year. But can you seriously look at Martin and Gillespie and say "I'm proud to have them in the NZ one day team"? I can't. Test team certainly but i don't rate them at all in ODIs. I'd rather even Ian Butler.

No - I'm not convinced by Martin, and even less convinced by Gillespie. However, Hitchcock, Thompson, Diamanti, Yovich and many more are too one dimensional and don't have either the speed or the variations in movement which will allow them to success at international level.

Time to bypass a group and start grooming Southee, Te Ahu Davis, Anderson to be the replacements.

One thing in Martin's defence is that he has improved significantly over the past couple of years. Not great for ODIs, but decent.

Indeed a good pick by you. Every time I turn on the radio I hear he's done well for himself. Sadly haven't seen him on the telie yet but I hope to do so and I trust your judgement on bowlers...most of the time

Hmmm... I'm not the best judge on Slow Left Armers though. Certainly, I've never been able to read them whilst batting. Houghie's a good bloke though and still learning. He's made a good impact in his first season; a bigger impact than I expected and he can also bat (though Wellington seem intent on batting him lower down than he should be batting)

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Yes I did

The first over was shocking but the second was OK. He's definitley better than what he showed in that game.

Yeah. Being carted by Graham Napier is just what I look for in a NZ bowling attack.

 

[Flem274*]

No - I'm not convinced by Martin, and even less convinced by Gillespie. However, Hitchcock, Thompson, Diamanti, Yovich and many more are too one dimensional and don't have either the speed or the variations in movement which will allow them to success at international level.

Time to bypass a group and start grooming Southee, Te Ahu Davis, Anderson to be the replacements.

One thing in Martin's defence is that he has improved significantly over the past couple of years. Not great for ODIs, but decent.

Yes we should start grooming Southee but I don't want what happened to Vettori to happen to him. Rather than rush him in and get a good bowler lets take some time to make an NZ all time great. I thought Te Ahu Davis was injured? I think it was Perm who assured me he was over hyped anyway, dunno if thats true, what does Mr Fast Bowler think? (Not a relation of your is he? ) as for Anderson, isn't he only 16?

Also, do you know whats happening with Richard Sherlock?

Martin in tests has been impressive lately but in ODis he isn't penetrative enough IMO

Hmmm... I'm not the best judge on Slow Left Armers though. Certainly, I've never been able to read them whilst batting. Houghie's a good bloke though and still learning. He's made a good impact in his first season; a bigger impact than I expected and he can also bat (though Wellington seem intent on batting him lower down than he should be batting)

Where would you have him bat?

 

[Flem274*]

Yeah. Being carted by Graham Napier is just what I look for in a NZ bowling attack.

Weren't you carted by one Peter Fulton once? I believe he got a triple century...(There's my cheap shot for today )

Still reckon Hitchcock at his best is better in ODIs than Martin and Gillespie

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

I haven't seen Te Ahu play live. Saw him on the box and at least he had some pace. You're right you; injured. As as Richard Sherlock. He was playing for ACT and I think he picked up a nasty (back?) injury in his first game for 'em.

Houghton should be batting at #8 - ahead of Dewayne Bowden, Jeets, Iain O'Brien, Mark Rasmussen, Mark Gillespie. When Franklin's playing he should be down at #9.