Indian "Pace" Bowlers ? Whats the Problems , how can better ones mould?

[lord_of_darkness]

Well in the previous topic it was closed due to some inconsiderate people fighting over something they should have settled it somewhere else , instead of letting other ordinary people continue discussion on cricket based topics

So here is the topic once again ...

Question : Is it the pitch's fault that new bowlers arent coming out well , or problems inside the administration ?

[Anil]

Originally posted by lord_of_darkness
Well in the previous topic it was closed due to some inconsiderate people fighting over something they should have settled it somewhere else , instead of letting other ordinary people continue discussion on cricket based topics

So here is the topic once again ...

Question : Is it the pitch's fault that new bowlers arent coming out well , or problems inside the administration ?

1. The pitches and the climate in India are very big factors.

2. Regional favouritism depending on where the selectors hail from is another factor with quotas for each selector instead of selecting the best 11 or 15 in the country.

3. Lack of genuine fast bowling heros and role models except for Kapil Dev while spin heros are aplenty.

4. Unless you are exceptionally talented and look like having a reasonable chance of getting into the national side, cricket is really not a viable career option especially as far as bowlers are concerned. International cricketers are paid very well, but domestic cricketers, not so much. There are very few completely professional cricketers in India, most of them have other jobs as safety nets and are not fully into cricket.

5. Bowlers have to be supported by able fielding for them to succeed. At the international level, there is now more emphasis on fielding and fitness and athleticism, but at the domestic level, enough importance is not given to these kind of basics. A decent bowler in a good fielding side has a better chance of being successful than a good bowler in a poor fielding side and a good fielding side also increases a bowlers' confidence.

6. The average Indian is naturally(or genetically) just not as physically well-endowed as the European or the Australian or West Indians or even the Pakistanis. That is one reason why the Indians are more of skill players than power players and that's one of the reasons why big fast bowlers do not come into picture that often.

Some of the stuff I mentioned are low priority while others are really top priority, but I believe that a combination of these factors affect the growth of really good bowlers in the pace department in India.

[lord_of_darkness]

2. Regional favouritism depending on where the selectors hail from is another factor with quotas for each selector instead of selecting the best 11 or 15 in the country.

Thats the biggest downside i guess , people shouldnt be based on class or merit but by their ability .... i wonder how many good people are being overlooked like that

[masterblaster]

Anil you summed it up 100% perfect mate.

[Anil]

Originally posted by masterblaster
Anil you summed it up 100% perfect mate.

Thanks. It's not much fun listing out such negative aspects of the game in our country, but unfortunately, they are all true. I just hope that some one like a Kapil or even a Srinath comes up in spite of the system atleast every decade or so. Is that too much to ask in a country of 1 billion human beings?

[masterblaster]

yeah its a pity, but we had good seamers in the past but not world class seamers to support Kapil Dev and Srinath.
We've had Prabhakar who was quick and useful, Prasad who had a wonderful leg-cutter and slower ball, and now Khan who is physically strong and powerful.

With time we'll see one

[Eclipse]

The Pitchest really dont suit any sort off bowling exept spin.

Even real classy Pace bowlers struggle in india Hence the main reason why most ODI games the quicks get cained in india.

[Andre]

I'd have to say that the problems are a: the climate - just too hot and not enough cloud for encouragement for seam and swing, therefore making seam bowling extremely difficult. b: the pitches, for obvious reason's.

[royGilchrist]

All the problems you mentioned Anil exist in Pakistan as well, pitches, climate, selectors etc but in the last 20 years Pakistan has produced many genuine fast bowlers.

The only reason that is valid is lack of heroes and role models, an that in my opinion is the reason why India doesnt produce fast bowlers. Kapil was good steady and has many achievements for his team, but he did not rule the hearts of the youth like Imran used to do, and that is the sole reason why Pakistan produced so many fast bowlers after him. At the time when I was growing up in Pak. every kid wanted to become Imran, copy his action, bowl bouncers etc. Everyone wangted to emulate him, not only in cricket, a bit like maybe Amitabh Bachan. Thats what India needs somehow, to produce that one perfect role model.

And I dont buy the 'physically enodwed' argument, I think thats crap. A couple of reasons, India with a population of almost 9 times that of Pakistan must have enough well endowed men, infact the population of WI is much less, and if they can produce so many strong men then surely India can too. Secondly bowlers like Hadlee, Marshall, etc were not physically extraordinary but still one of the best, so its not about physical attibutes but mental attitude. And some Indians also give the being vegetarian argument in this which I think is pretty stupid and totally invalid. Imean there are more than 100 million non-veg muslims in India so why cant a fast bowler beproduced from them.

Its all about role models, kids growing up in India want to become like sachin, sunny, and vengsarkar.

[V Reddy]

Also many youngsters don't play cricket seriously. They are really really talented but nobody encurages to play especially in villages. I have seen some who probably would be in 140's kmph but they think it's a waste of time. I wonder if atleast 1 % play cricket seriously.

[Rik]

Originally posted by vishnureddy
Also many youngsters don't play cricket seriously. They are really really talented but nobody encurages to play especially in villages. I have seen some who probably would be in 140's kmph but they think it's a waste of time. I wonder if atleast 1 % play cricket seriously.

Theres a lot of talent where I live...its just the Captains of the Villages are more interisted in picking their mates and if they do pick a young player they bat them at number 11 and don't let them bowl. There are a lot of young players like me round here who can't get a game in the summer.

[Gotchya]

And I dont buy the 'physically enodwed' argument, I think thats crap. A couple of reasons, India with a population of almost 9 times that of Pakistan must have enough well endowed men, infact the population of WI is much less, and if they can produce so many strong men then surely India can too. Secondly bowlers like Hadlee, Marshall, etc were not physically extraordinary but still one of the best, so its not about physical attibutes but mental attitude. And some Indians also give the being vegetarian argument in this which I think is pretty stupid and totally invalid. Imean there are more than 100 million non-veg muslims in India so why cant a fast bowler beproduced from them.

Exactly. It's all about mental perparation and willingness to bowl fast. Sure physique comes in, but you must have the temparament of a fast bowler if ur willing to even start. There is no reason why India cannot produce fast bowlers, but that they dont have good enough people at the top, maybe from the start thats what has been a problem. Pakistan got Fazal Mehmood very early, then a long draught, finally with Sarfraz and then Imran the Pacers were back for good.

Even real classy Pace bowlers struggle in india Hence the main reason why most ODI games the quicks get cained in india

I think it was shoaib who said that as a youngster, if you wanted to bowl fast on Pakistani tracks, you invariably got hammered, therefore to get the batsman out, you tried to bowl even faster. Pace and swing are all that is in the fast bowling equation here in the sub-continent.

[V Reddy]

PAK picks a lot of players when they see talent in them even if they don't play 1st class game also. Also WI have better chance of getting fast bowlers b'coz its of small islands. You can almost see all the people playing cricket and pick talented ones and play them in 1 class.

[aussie_beater]

Originally posted by royGilchrist
And I dont buy the 'physically enodwed' argument, I think thats crap. A couple of reasons, India with a population of almost 9 times that of Pakistan must have enough well endowed men, infact the population of WI is much less, and if they can produce so many strong men then surely India can too. Secondly bowlers like Hadlee, Marshall, etc were not physically extraordinary but still one of the best, so its not about physical attibutes but mental attitude. And some Indians also give the being vegetarian argument in this which I think is pretty stupid and totally invalid. Imean there are more than 100 million non-veg muslims in India so why cant a fast bowler beproduced from them.

Its all about role models, kids growing up in India want to become like sachin, sunny, and vengsarkar.

Yes, the "physically endowed" thing is not a good enough reason.In a country of one billion, that's not an excuse at all.

IMO, The main problem is lack of incentives at being a fast bowler and role models to look up to.I mean, a fast bowler does not get any assistance in domestic cricket.Also they don't have a Wasim Akram or Dennis Lillee to look up to and strive for emulating them.Its not that great new spinners are being produced by the boatload, either.

The thing is that in India the least amount of premium is paid for trying to be a good bowler.And coupled with this is the absolute lack of focus by the cricketing admins.BCCI is the richest cricket board in the world but it spends less then a dime in training at the junior level and at schools.There is no planning and talent just goes waste.The best fast bowlers academy(MRF foundation) is a institute run by a corporation.BCCI's coffers are full of money and its used mostly for travel and entertainment expenses for its bigwigs rather then promoting the game in the country.

Not that BCCI spends its money creating batsman either....but youngsters in India have Sachin and a host of other willow wielders to try to emulate.Just see the case of Sehwag.... he confessed at being almost obsessed with Sachin's batting style and wanted to play just like his idol.Very few try to be anything else, and the ones that try are so challenged by the circumstances that they give up.

[Edited on 16/11/2002 by aussie_beater]

[Anil]

Originally posted by royGilchrist
All the problems you mentioned Anil exist in Pakistan as well, pitches, climate, selectors etc but in the last 20 years Pakistan has produced many genuine fast bowlers.

The only reason that is valid is lack of heroes and role models, an that in my opinion is the reason why India doesnt produce fast bowlers. Kapil was good steady and has many achievements for his team, but he did not rule the hearts of the youth like Imran used to do, and that is the sole reason why Pakistan produced so many fast bowlers after him. At the time when I was growing up in Pak. every kid wanted to become Imran, copy his action, bowl bouncers etc. Everyone wangted to emulate him, not only in cricket, a bit like maybe Amitabh Bachan. Thats what India needs somehow, to produce that one perfect role model.

And I dont buy the 'physically enodwed' argument, I think thats crap. A couple of reasons, India with a population of almost 9 times that of Pakistan must have enough well endowed men, infact the population of WI is much less, and if they can produce so many strong men then surely India can too. Secondly bowlers like Hadlee, Marshall, etc were not physically extraordinary but still one of the best, so its not about physical attibutes but mental attitude. And some Indians also give the being vegetarian argument in this which I think is pretty stupid and totally invalid. Imean there are more than 100 million non-veg muslims in India so why cant a fast bowler beproduced from them.

Its all about role models, kids growing up in India want to become like sachin, sunny, and vengsarkar.

Hey Roy, haven't heard from you in a while. When I said physically less well-endowed, I did say, the average Indian(not all Indians). That is genetically true when you compare them to Europeans and some other races, even Pakistanis. It is not crap. Even if an Indian is big, it doesn't necessarily follow that he should take up cricket, does it? or if he takes up cricket, doesn't mean that he will be good at it. I mean, being big alone doesn't make for a good cricketer. I did not say anything about vegetarianism, so don't bring that up.

Another thing, I said that not all the reasons are valid to the same extent, but they all have an effect on this issue in varying degrees and I agree that the role model thing is a bigger reason that most.