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Thread: Old Vs New?

  1. #1
    U19 12th Man Benny2k1's Avatar
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    Old Vs New?

    After watching englands latest ODI catastrophe i was wondering is it worth bringing in some of the old guard into the squad?!, in the past year or two england have thrown in younger players into the ODI squad and to be honist they are like a fish out of water, Plunkett, Mahmood, Bresnen, Kabir, Loudon all good players im sure but are they good enough, would it be better to bring back the corks, goughs, hell maybe even hick, ramprakash they are all players having good seasons and would provide the up and comers a year to learn what international cricket is about, what is happening now is surley damaging there confidence?

    Its all very well building a young side for the world cup, but we want to win the thing!

    Young players should be braught in if they are having stand out seasons!!

    so for the champions trophy my england squad:

    Mal Loye
    Marcus Trescothick
    Andrew Strauss
    Micheal Vaughan
    Paul Collingwood
    Kevin Peiterson
    Andrew Flintoff
    Chris Read
    Dominic Cork
    Steven Harmison
    Ashley Giles
    Darren Gough
    Stuart Broad
    Glenn Chappel
    Monty Panasear

  2. #2
    Hall of Fame Member steds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny2k1
    Mal Loye
    Marcus Trescothick
    Andrew Strauss
    Micheal Vaughan
    Paul Collingwood
    Kevin Peiterson
    Andrew Flintoff
    Chris Read
    Dominic Cork
    Steven Harmison
    Ashley Giles
    Darren Gough
    Stuart Broad
    Glenn Chappel
    Monty Panasear
    No way. Especially not Cork and Gough. Aren't particularly great County bowlers these days, never mind international ones.
    I'm not even going to bother with the Read > Jones thing any more. The country wants a scapegoat, and they want Jones to be it. Not worth trying to fight his corner.
    What makes you think Giles will be fit, too?

    Edit: How will we be able to hide Panesar's fielding in an ODI, also?
    Last edited by steds; 25-06-2006 at 01:19 PM.

  3. #3
    International Coach tooextracool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny2k1
    Mal Loye
    Marcus Trescothick
    Andrew Strauss
    Micheal Vaughan
    Paul Collingwood
    Kevin Peiterson
    Andrew Flintoff
    Chris Read
    Dominic Cork
    Steven Harmison
    Ashley Giles
    Darren Gough
    Stuart Broad
    Glenn Chappel
    Monty Panasear
    Panesar would be one of the stupidest selections possible IMO. Forget about the fact that he cant field or hold a bat, his bowling is so clearly not suited to the ODI form considering that he relies on flight rather than variation.
    Strauss has played in over 50 ODIs now, and his average stands at 27.3 which is clearly not good enough.
    Michael Vaughan's place in the ODI side was always under scrutiny, why on earth would you want him back especially when hes an injury liability?
    Also i have to question why you wouldnt have Jamie Dalrymple in the squad. I dont know how long Anderson is out for, but if hes fit i think he should be in the squad. If experience is what they are looking for then i would consider forcing Nick Knight out of retirement, one of our best ODI players and his record in list A cricket since is astonishing:
    http://www.cricketarchive.co.uk/Arch...by_Season.html
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    State 12th Man Autobahn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooextracool
    If experience is what they are looking for then i would consider forcing Nick Knight out of retirement, one of our best ODI players and his record in list A cricket since is astonishing:
    You know that wouldn't be such a bad idea


  5. #5
    State 12th Man Autobahn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steds
    No way. Especially not Cork and Gough. Aren't particularly great County bowlers these days, never mind international ones.
    I'm not even going to bother with the Read > Jones thing any more. The country wants a scapegoat, and they want Jones to be it. Not worth trying to fight his corner.
    What makes you think Giles will be fit, too?

    Edit: How will we be able to hide Panesar's fielding in an ODI, also?
    Gough would only be able to get back into if he turned himself into a defensive ODI bowler (i.e. late-era botham) and even then he wouldn't be first choice.

    Read could really only get into the team only if plunkett's batting really came on leaps and bounds.

  6. #6
    International Coach tooextracool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Autobahn
    Gough would only be able to get back into if he turned himself into a defensive ODI bowler (i.e. late-era botham) and even then he wouldn't be first choice.

    Read could really only get into the team only if plunkett's batting really came on leaps and bounds.
    have u ever seen read bat?
    not only is he a better ODI batsman than geraint jones, hes probably a far better player than about half of the other batsmen in the current english side.

  7. #7
    State 12th Man Autobahn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooextracool
    have u ever seen read bat?
    not only is he a better ODI batsman than geraint jones, hes probably a far better player than about half of the other batsmen in the current english side.
    Maybe but when was the last time a team had a policy of regularly switching keepers for ODIs and Tests? because Read isn't really a test-level batsmen and i can't see any coach being happy with that situation.

    But yeah Read's batting is better suited to the ODI, but i don't think fletcher sees it that and would probably only try it if he had a solid number 8.

    We really miss Craig White.
    Last edited by Autobahn; 25-06-2006 at 07:52 PM.

  8. #8
    International Coach tooextracool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Autobahn
    Maybe but when was the last time a team had a policy of regularly switching keepers for ODIs and Tests? because Read isn't really a test-level batsmen and i can't see any coach being happy with that situation..
    Gilchrist- Healy did it for years. its not significantly different from any other specialist test or ODI player doing it. Further i dont see why read shouldnt be in the test side as well. hes been consistently scoring runs for his county since he got dropped, and his batting has in all likelyhood improved since we last saw him. geraints batting or keeping havent been upto standard in tests have they?

    Quote Originally Posted by Autobahn
    We really miss Craig White.
    indeed, craig white was a fine ODI bowler, even when he wasnt in his prime. he was probably robbed off being a great test match bowler thx to injury. i must say looking back to our side in the last world cup we had a decent nucleus:
    trescothick,knight,hussain, vaughan, stewart,collingwood, flintoff, white,giles, caddick,anderson
    certainly a far better side than the one we have now. a bit more luck and we might have actually gone much further in that world cup.

  9. #9
    U19 12th Man Benny2k1's Avatar
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    Id still give Strauss some time, he made a cracking start to his international career.

    Monty could be a good wepon in ODIs i think, my main point was tho do you think that the england selectors will ever go back to the goughs,caddicks, Ramprakash,Corks or will we keep throwing youngsters in.

    I put read in the side because i think he deserves another chance, Shows how valuable alec stuart was for england

  10. #10
    International Coach tooextracool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny2k1
    Monty could be a good wepon in ODIs i think, my main point was tho do you think that the england selectors will ever go back to the goughs,caddicks, Ramprakash,Corks or will we keep throwing youngsters in.
    i dont think they will. The only person they might go back to is gough, and that will probably only happen just before the world cup.

  11. #11
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooextracool
    If experience is what they are looking for then i would consider forcing Nick Knight out of retirement, one of our best ODI players and his record in list A cricket since is astonishing:
    http://www.cricketarchive.co.uk/Arch...by_Season.html
    Same here but would the selectors go back to him? and if if they did would he want to come back to international cricket for the world cup, its unlikely but surely wort a shot in this stuggling England ODI outfit.

    Quote Originally Posted by tooextracool
    have u ever seen read bat?
    not only is he a better ODI batsman than geraint jones, hes probably a far better player than about half of the other batsmen in the current english side.Further i dont see why read shouldnt be in the test side as well. hes been consistently scoring runs for his county since he got dropped, and his batting has in all likelyhood improved since we last saw him. geraints batting or keeping havent been upto standard in tests have they?
    Good to see someone else with good accolades for Read, i thought i was the only one.

  12. #12
    State 12th Man Autobahn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooextracool
    Gilchrist- Healy did it for years. its not significantly different from any other specialist test or ODI player doing it. Further i dont see why read shouldnt be in the test side as well. hes been consistently scoring runs for his county since he got dropped, and his batting has in all likelyhood improved since we last saw him. geraints batting or keeping havent been upto standard in tests have they?



    indeed, craig white was a fine ODI bowler, even when he wasnt in his prime. he was probably robbed off being a great test match bowler thx to injury. i must say looking back to our side in the last world cup we had a decent nucleus:
    trescothick,knight,hussain, vaughan, stewart,collingwood, flintoff, white,giles, caddick,anderson
    certainly a far better side than the one we have now. a bit more luck and we might have actually gone much further in that world cup.
    Thanks TEC i didn't know about healy and gilly swapping places regularly.

    3 things deined us going futher in the last world cup:

    Bichel, Bevan and Zim

    And in his bio Nasser thought Caddick wasn't the best ODI bowler as he had problems changing lengths.

    But yes is suppose it's worth Read having another shot at the test team.

  13. #13
    International Coach tooextracool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Autobahn
    Thanks TEC i didn't know about healy and gilly swapping places regularly.

    3 things deined us going futher in the last world cup:

    Bichel, Bevan and Zim
    i think the 2003 world cup in general was a very poor one. Not only was it affected by Zimbabwe and Kenya, but the conditions screwed several teams over- WI-B'desh, Eng-Pak, Eng-Ind. England only really had one game against an international class side that wasnt conditions affected- Australia and when you consider that they came closer than anyone else in the world cup to beating Australia, i can only say that things might have been very very different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Autobahn
    And in his bio Nasser thought Caddick wasn't the best ODI bowler as he had problems changing lengths..
    Caddick wasnt a great ODI bowler no. Didnt have the variation and was one of the worst bowlers at the death due to a lack of a good yorker or slower ball. But for someone who could bowl line and length and get the ball to swing, Caddick did remarkable well and his record 28 @ 4 .01 speaks for itself.

  14. #14
    International Debutant a massive zebra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooextracool
    Strauss has played in over 50 ODIs now, and his average stands at 27.3 which is clearly not good enough.
    It is actually in excess of 35.
    Last edited by a massive zebra; 26-06-2006 at 03:21 PM.
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    Hall of Fame Member luckyeddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooextracool
    Strauss has played in over 50 ODIs now, and his average stands at 27.3 which is clearly not good enough.
    That's his Twenty20 average
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