*** un-Official - New Zealand Black Caps Thread *** - Page 10

_Ed_ · 03-11-2006, 02:04 AM

McIntosh is another who has looked good at times, but I'm not overly confident in his potential as a test opener.

Matt52 · 04-11-2006, 06:28 PM

I think Jamie How, looked to be the best of the potential openers. I just remeber watching Papps play in South Africa and really struggle. His domestic average is only in the low 30's which may surprise some people(Papps, not How).

Vincent should be at no.4. Sometimes i wonder what his record would nhave been like if he had batted in the middle order for his whole career, much better I think.

As for the other opening spot, I think Papps, Fulton, Marshall, are around but I would go for a bit of a left feild choice in Rob Nicol, from Auckland. I know, I know, he is a middle order player being asked to open again, but Justin Langer was a middle order player, Sehwag was also, it can sometimes work.

I think he has a good back foot technique, is not really a stroke maker, and often plays like an opener, a little bit dour. He does have talent though and really,, what else do we have to lose?.

meatspx · 05-11-2006, 01:19 AM

I'm not sure about Astle in tests, the WC will surely be his swan song and we gain nothing in keeping him in the test side other than giving him more time in the middle.

Fulton has a great domestic record and needs to be given another chance (some other time), and yes I agree we need a specialist opener with Fleming. Imagine Vincent trying to face Vass on a green wicket, he wouldn't even get his bat halfway in front on his frontpad before he is LBW!

Whatever happens I just hope Taylor is given a chance & Vincent doesn't open. We can't keep on playing the same batsmen who are out of form (a side with Astle, Vincent, Marshall & Fulton in it is just too dodgy).

My side would be:
Fleming
(Not sure.... How?)
Styris
Vincent
Taylor
Oram
McCullum
Vetorri
Franklin (a must for the test side, fringe squad player for the ODIs)
Mills
Bond

Fulton is a middle order batsman so I wouldn't have him in the side. Oram can bowl third change for NZ in NZ, but long-term he should be a all-rounder as the 4th option.

Oram has had back injuries, he's tall, he only started seriously concentrating on his bowling when he wsa 17/18. It's not a matter of 'if', but rather than 'when' where it comes to having another back problem. Plus seeing Styris bowl in the first morning of a test is not a good tactic (it's happened recently, can't remember). Imagine Collingwood bowling first morning of the Ashes.

James · 05-11-2006, 05:38 AM

I think Bond must retire from Test cricket and first class cricket if we're to see the best out of him.

ODI cricket is what counts for New Zealand Cricket and the less cricket he plays up until the World Cup the better it is in my mind.

And let's face it, the bulk of the New Zealand public are not the least bit interested in how we do in Test cricket.

16 tins of Spam · 05-11-2006, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James

I think Bond must retire from Test cricket and first class cricket if we're to see the best out of him.

ODI cricket is what counts for New Zealand Cricket and the less cricket he plays up until the World Cup the better it is in my mind.

And let's face it, the bulk of the New Zealand public are not the least bit interested in how we do in Test cricket.

I'm disappointed to hear you say that, James. The bulk of the NZ sporting public doesn't care about cricket, full stop. In my experience, most cricket fans here consider tests to be infinitely more important than ODIs, which are generally thought of as a bit of a lark. Important, but not approaching the status of tests.

Perm · 05-11-2006, 03:42 PM

I agree with James in the sense that the general public do not really care about Test matches and that's understandable. The real cricket fan's care about test's far more than ODI's and I think its a reasonable statement to make that Bond should stop playing FC cricket. Canterbury already have all the stars.

16 tins of Spam · 05-11-2006, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perm

I think its a reasonable statement to make that Bond should stop playing FC cricket. Canterbury already have all the stars.

I agree with that, although he hardly ever plays domestic cricket anyway, so I don't imagine it'd make much difference.

Loony BoB · 06-11-2006, 02:53 AM

I would imagine that decision would ultimately be up to Bond - he may prefer playing FC / test cricket to one day cricket, so who's to deny him? Then again, he always seems like someone who's almost obligated to do the job lately.

EDIT: Patel for the test side... yes/no?

16 tins of Spam · 06-11-2006, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loony BoB

Patel for the test side... yes/no?

Yes.

Perm · 06-11-2006, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loony BoB

Patel for the test side... yes/no?

No, needs to improve his First Class record first, he averages 39 which isn't good enough. Give him another season at domestic level.

16 tins of Spam · 06-11-2006, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perm

No, needs to improve his First Class record first, he averages 39 which isn't good enough. Give him another season at domestic level.

He's not going to get that chance. He'll be spending much of the next 6 months in the national side, where his form has been impressive.

Matt52 · 06-11-2006, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perm

No, needs to improve his First Class record first, he averages 39 which isn't good enough. Give him another season at domestic level.

I think he is ready now,. Playing on green seamers doesnt help a spin bowler's average in NZ conditions and playing in a test match, you would assume the pitches would be of a better quality to allow the spin bowlers more of a chance. he would be handier overseas than in NZ I think.

NZTailender · 16-12-2006, 05:57 PM

Would someone be able to give me a list of left-handed openers in NZ? I think we're missing a trick here. most of the other nations with successful opening combinations (compared to ours) have at least one left hander. Our last decent opener, Richardson, was a left hander.

And if there's no decent left handed openers at domestic level...will we see a promotion for Oram and Vettori?

Remember, we have to ignore the 'Fleming as Opener' option...

_Ed_ · 16-12-2006, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NZTailender

Remember, we have to ignore the 'Fleming as Opener' option...

That we do, that we do.

The following openers (that I can think of) are lefties: Tim McIntosh (2961 FC runs @ 32.90), Geoff Barnett (907 @ 32.39, averaging 11.75 in ODIs for Canada), Luke Woodcock (1536 @ 26.03).

There must be more but these are the only ones I know of.

NZTailender · 16-12-2006, 06:05 PM

McIntosh has had a good season? IIRC, we've thrown his name about a fair bit recently...

05-11-2006, 05:38 AM	#139 (permalink)
James Cricket Web Owner Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 22,291	I think Bond must retire from Test cricket and first class cricket if we're to see the best out of him. ODI cricket is what counts for New Zealand Cricket and the less cricket he plays up until the World Cup the better it is in my mind. And let's face it, the bulk of the New Zealand public are not the least bit interested in how we do in Test cricket. __________________ Follow Cricket Web on Facebook Follow Cricket Web on Twitter Email - james.nixon@cricketweb.net Moderators - moderators@cricketweb.net (will go to all moderators) Skype - nixonja@hotmail.com Google Talk/Facebook - cricketweb@gmail.com

06-11-2006, 02:53 AM	#143 (permalink)
Loony BoB International Captain Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Edinburgh (although I'm a New Zealander) Posts: 7,269	I would imagine that decision would ultimately be up to Bond - he may prefer playing FC / test cricket to one day cricket, so who's to deny him? Then again, he always seems like someone who's almost obligated to do the job lately. EDIT: Patel for the test side... yes/no? __________________ REMEMBER: A couple of years in therapy, you'll get over it. *Proud to be a member of the CW Colts* omgmygame \| forums

16-12-2006, 05:57 PM	#148 (permalink)
NZTailender Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Dunedin, Otago, New Zealand Posts: 19,043	Would someone be able to give me a list of left-handed openers in NZ? I think we're missing a trick here. most of the other nations with successful opening combinations (compared to ours) have at least one left hander. Our last decent opener, Richardson, was a left hander. And if there's no decent left handed openers at domestic level...will we see a promotion for Oram and Vettori? Remember, we have to ignore the 'Fleming as Opener' option... __________________ President of SKAS - Kat is King \| Proud member of CVAAS - One of the best \| LRPLTAS - Rosco rocks! The NZTailender Supporting XI: L Vincent, H Rutherford, N Broom, Craig Cachopa, D Brownlie, BJ Watling, D de Boorder+, I Sodhi, B Wheeler, H Bennett, A Milne Go Tigers! R.I.P. Fardin & Craig

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03-11-2006, 02:04 AM	#136 (permalink)
_Ed_ Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Auckland, Aotearoa Posts: 19,107	McIntosh is another who has looked good at times, but I'm not overly confident in his potential as a test opener.

04-11-2006, 06:28 PM	#137 (permalink)
Matt52 U19 Vice-Captain Join Date: May 2006 Location: NZ Posts: 555	I think Jamie How, looked to be the best of the potential openers. I just remeber watching Papps play in South Africa and really struggle. His domestic average is only in the low 30's which may surprise some people(Papps, not How). Vincent should be at no.4. Sometimes i wonder what his record would nhave been like if he had batted in the middle order for his whole career, much better I think. As for the other opening spot, I think Papps, Fulton, Marshall, are around but I would go for a bit of a left feild choice in Rob Nicol, from Auckland. I know, I know, he is a middle order player being asked to open again, but Justin Langer was a middle order player, Sehwag was also, it can sometimes work. I think he has a good back foot technique, is not really a stroke maker, and often plays like an opener, a little bit dour. He does have talent though and really,, what else do we have to lose?.

05-11-2006, 01:19 AM	#138 (permalink)
meatspx U19 Cricketer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New Zealand Posts: 406	I'm not sure about Astle in tests, the WC will surely be his swan song and we gain nothing in keeping him in the test side other than giving him more time in the middle. Fulton has a great domestic record and needs to be given another chance (some other time), and yes I agree we need a specialist opener with Fleming. Imagine Vincent trying to face Vass on a green wicket, he wouldn't even get his bat halfway in front on his frontpad before he is LBW! Whatever happens I just hope Taylor is given a chance & Vincent doesn't open. We can't keep on playing the same batsmen who are out of form (a side with Astle, Vincent, Marshall & Fulton in it is just too dodgy). My side would be: Fleming (Not sure.... How?) Styris Vincent Taylor Oram McCullum Vetorri Franklin (a must for the test side, fringe squad player for the ODIs) Mills Bond Fulton is a middle order batsman so I wouldn't have him in the side. Oram can bowl third change for NZ in NZ, but long-term he should be a all-rounder as the 4th option. Oram has had back injuries, he's tall, he only started seriously concentrating on his bowling when he wsa 17/18. It's not a matter of 'if', but rather than 'when' where it comes to having another back problem. Plus seeing Styris bowl in the first morning of a test is not a good tactic (it's happened recently, can't remember). Imagine Collingwood bowling first morning of the Ashes.

16-12-2006, 06:05 PM	#150 (permalink)
NZTailender Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Dunedin, Otago, New Zealand Posts: 19,043	McIntosh has had a good season? IIRC, we've thrown his name about a fair bit recently...

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