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Thread: ESPN's Legends of Cricket

  1. #1
    State Vice-Captain Francis's Avatar
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    ESPN's Legends of Cricket

    ESPN'S LEGENDS OF CRICKET (www.legendsofcricket.tv)

    This was a TV series which asked several judges: Wasim Akram, Sunil Gavaskar,
    Richie Benaud, Sir Richard Hadlee, Dickie Bird, Michael Holding, Allan Border, John Knowles, Ian Botham, Robin Marlar, Ian Chappell, Christopher Martin-Jenkins, Tony Cozier, Mike Procter and Martin Crowe to rank who they felt, were the 50 best cricketers ever! After they all voted, this was a result of the vote:

    50 Bishan Bedi (India)

    49 Alan Davidson (Australia)

    48 Allan Donald (South Africa)

    47 Allan Knott (England)

    46 Victor Trumper (Australia)

    45 Ray Lindwall (Australia)

    44 Javed Miandad (Pakistan)

    43 Clarrie Grimmett (Australia)

    42 Jim Laker (England)

    41 Glenn McGrath (Australia)

    40 Michael Holding (West Indies)

    39 Curtly Ambrose (West Indies)

    38 Andy Roberts (West Indies)

    37 Joel Garner (West Indies)

    36 Richie Benaud (Australia)

    35 Clyde Walcott (West Indies)

    34 Brian Lara (West Indies)

    33 Fred Trueman (England)

    32 Mike Procter (South Africa)

    31 Courtney Walsh (West Indies)

    30 Bill O'Rielly (Australia)

    29 Herbert Sutcliffe (England)

    28 Wilfred Rhodes (England)

    27 Everton Weekes (West Indies)

    26 SF Barnes (England)

    25 Allan Border (Australia)

    24 Barry Richards (South Africa)

    23 Steve Waugh (Australia)

    22 Kapil Dev (India)

    21 Wasim Akram (Pakistan)

    20 Sir Leonard Hutton (England)

    19 Sir Frank Worrell (West Indies)

    18 George Headley (West Indies)

    17 Greg Chappell (Australia)

    16 Malcolm Marshall (West Indies)

    15 Graeme Pollock (South Africa)

    14 WG Grace (England)

    13 Keith Miller (Australia)

    12 Sir Richard Hadlee (New Zealand)

    11 Ian Botham (England)

    10 Sunil Gavaskar (India)

    09 Wally Hammond (England)

    08 Imran Khan (Pakistan)

    07 Sachin Tendulkar (India)

    06 Dennis Lillee (Australia)

    05 Sir Jack Hobbs (England)

    04 Shane Warne (Australia)

    03 Sir Vivian Richards (West Indies)

    02 Sir Garfield Sobers (West Indies)

    01 Sir Donald Bradman (Australia)



    A few things should be remembered. Firstly, this happened in 2001 so of course more recent players would be higher. Murali didn't become great until around 1999 so obviously if it were done today, he'd be in there. When McGrath was mentioned, the narrator made sure to note that he'd surely be higher as time went by. Lara was in a period where people remembered that his average once dropped below 50. Unfortunately for him, this was before his beyond brilliant series in Sri Lanka.

    The idea of the series was to invite conversation and debate, which is what I hope will happen. It's interesting when you get voters like Richie Benaud who'd vote for SF Banes in their top ten etc. And then you'd have someone like Sunil Gavaskar who'd list someone like Bishan Bedi.

  2. #2
    Banned Blaze's Avatar
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    Lol at Botham above Hadlee

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    State Vice-Captain Francis's Avatar
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    There's actually a good case for Botham over Hadlee.

    Hadlee was definitely more of a bowling allrounder to full fledged all rounder like Botham. It's been argued before that Malcolm Marshall was a better bowler than Hadlee, but Marshall had to share wickets with Holding, Garner and Roberts etc. While Hadlee had more time to get wickets as NZ's only striker. Similar to the Warne/Murali debates. So Hadlee gets his ranking mostly off bowling.

    It's also been said that Botham's figures don't reflect how good he really was. In one year Botham made 1000 runs in a clanendar year I believe. That's what the best batsmen do today... yet Botham's average would never suggest that.

    Don't forget, most of all, that all rounders are the toughest cricketers to judge with stats. Because three wickets and a fifty can easily mean as much as a century, if not more at times.

    Then again, Ian Botham was a judge on the panal and might have put himself as number #1, who knows.

    It's important to remember stats aren't everything and that every person who voted on the panel are cricket greats... then again, as I said, the intriguing thing is that they are from different schools. Benaud from an old school, while Botham represents a new school.

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    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    I've got the book and DVD set of this, well its actually the book and DVD of the top 25. They shortlisted 50 players, and then chose 25 from there. I remember watching a few of the shows, but couldn't watch them all, hence why I purchased the DVD set which is absolutely awesome.

    I really recommend either the book or DVD set to anyone who is interested in the history of these champion players. Its great.
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    International Regular Beleg's Avatar
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    Here's a list of some cricketers who I consider 'legends' within local or international context.

    West Indian legends:

    1. Sobers
    2. Lara
    3. Headley
    4. Richards
    5. Weekes
    6. Walcott
    7. Worrell
    8. Kanhai
    9. Kallicharan
    10. Lloyd
    11. Holding
    12. Garner
    13. Roberts
    14. Marshall
    15. Walsh
    16. Ambrose
    17. Gibbs
    18. Alf Valentine
    19. Sonny Ramadhin
    20. Bishop

    Australian Legends:

    1. Bradman
    2. Trumper
    3. Morris
    4. Harvey
    5. Ian Chappell
    6. Greg Chappell
    7. Richie Beanud
    8. Ray Lindwall
    9. Claire Grimmett
    10. Alan Davidson
    11. Steve Waugh
    12. Alan Border
    13. Dennis Lillee
    14. David Boon
    15. Mark Waugh
    16. Ricky Ponting
    17. Damien Martyn
    18. Adam Gilchrist
    19. Shane Warne
    20. Glenn McGrath

    Pakistani Legends

    1. Miandad
    2. Imran
    3. Wasim
    4. Inzamam
    5. Waqar
    6. Hanif Mohammad
    7. Zaheer Abbas
    8. Fazal Mahmood
    9. Saeed Anwar
    10. Majid Khan

    Indian Legends:

    1. Lala Amarnath
    2. Gavaskar
    3. Tendulkar
    4. Kumble
    5. Dravid
    6. Azharuddin
    7. Vengaskar
    8. Saeed Kirmani
    9. Kapil Dev
    10. Javagal Srinath
    11. Subash Gupte
    12. Bedi
    13. Chandershekar
    14. Persana
    15. C. K. Naidu
    16. Nawad Mansoor Ali Khan Patudi
    17. Mohinder Amarnath
    18. Saruav Ganguly


    South Africa

    1. Bruce Mitchel
    2. Dudley Nourse
    3. Alan Donald
    4. Kallis
    5. Peter Pollock
    6. Graeme Pollock
    7. Shaun Pollock
    8. Gary Kirsten
    9. Hansie Cronje
    10. Jonty Rhodes
    11. Barry Richards
    12. Mike Proctor
    13. Eddie Barlow
    14. Tayfield
    15. Lance Klusener

    New Zealand:

    1. Richard Hadlee
    2. Glen Turner
    3. Martin Crowe
    4. Chris Cairns
    5. Sutcliffe
    6. John Wright
    7. Stephen Fleming
    8. Richardson
    9. Chris Harris
    10. Lance Cairns

    Sri Lanka:

    1. Ranatunga
    2. Mendes
    3. De Silva
    4. Jayasuria
    5. Muralitharan
    6. Vaas
    7. Manahma
    8. Gurusinha
    9. Sangakara
    10. Attapatu

    Zimbabwe

    1. Andy Flower





    2. Grant Flower
    3. Dave Houghton
    4. Alistair Campbell
    5. Heath Streak

  6. #6
    BARNES OUT dontcloseyoureyes's Avatar
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    Personally, I'd rate Streak above all Zimbawean's minus A. Flower.

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    State Captain chooka_nick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    I've got the book and DVD set of this, well its actually the book and DVD of the top 25. They shortlisted 50 players, and then chose 25 from there. I remember watching a few of the shows, but couldn't watch them all, hence why I purchased the DVD set which is absolutely awesome.

    I really recommend either the book or DVD set to anyone who is interested in the history of these champion players. Its great.
    Yeah, I've read the book but I'd love the DVD. The book was great!
    Quote Originally Posted by dontcloseyoureyes
    Personally, I'd rate Streak above all Zimbawean's minus A. Flower.
    Me too man.
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    Hall of Fame Member luckyeddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze
    Lol at Botham above Hadlee
    Both of them were on the panel too. Perhaps they fought for it.

    The programs are still shown over here on Sky immediately following a day's play in a test or a ODI - personally I don't give a damn who is ranked higher than whom.
    Last edited by luckyeddie; 01-02-2006 at 03:59 AM.

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    First Class Debutant cric_manic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beleg
    Here's a list of some cricketers who I consider 'legends' within local or international context.








    New Zealand:

    1. Richard Hadlee
    2. Glen Turner
    3. Martin Crowe
    4. Chris Cairns
    5. Sutcliffe
    6. John Wright
    7. Stephen Fleming
    8. Richardson
    9. Chris Harris
    10. Lance Cairns


  10. #10
    Hall of Fame Member honestbharani's Avatar
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    That was a rather biased list. YOu will see that ESPN's commentators and Sky's commentators (they have a tie up with ESPN) were all placed high. Not a great list. Lara at 34 and Tendulkar at 7 is just plain right funny. I don't think there is much to seperate them and any ranking system that does not have both these guys around 5 places of each other is not very fair, IMHO.
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    In the end, I think it's so utterly, incomprehensibly boring. There is so much context behind each innings of cricket that dissecting statistics into these small samples is just worthless. No-one has ever been faced with the same situation in which they come out to bat as someone else. Ever.
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    International Captain Deja moo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honestbharani
    That was a rather biased list. YOu will see that ESPN's commentators and Sky's commentators (they have a tie up with ESPN) were all placed high. Not a great list. Lara at 34 and Tendulkar at 7 is just plain right funny. I don't think there is much to seperate them and any ranking system that does not have both these guys around 5 places of each other is not very fair, IMHO.
    Its an old old list after all...Sachin was at his peak in 98, while Lara seemed to be in decline.

    That said, I really don't see the point of the poster bringing up this outdated list for discussion. Noob enthusiasm perhaps ?
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    State Vice-Captain Francis's Avatar
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    I brought it up because the list isn't outdated. The only people who's ranking would change are Sachin (maybe), Lara, McGrath and Murali would be in there. Other than that it's a list which illustrates how the games greats rank their peers.

    -Firstly, the massive gap between Sachin and Lara is easy to explain. Lara had an average over 60 at one point, this dipped below 50 in the 90s. Lara was often criticised for not being motivated and that hurt him. However, reportedly, if Lara had one of two votes go his way, he'd be top 25.

    -Sachin, however, was untouchable in the 80s. Just brilliant... and really I have no criticisms of him from the 90s. He got centuries faster than Gavaskar... and remember he's slowed down these last few years and still beat it faster than Gavaskar. Martin Crowe ranks him the best batsman after Bradman... debateable but he's a contender. Really, for me, Sachin was the cricketer of the 90s.

    So yes it does make sense if you ask me. I personally don't see any bias in the picking... mainly because you have guys from different eras from different countires with difference opinions.

    I love Lara, at his best, he's my favorite batsman to watch and he's the second best batsman for making insanely huge scores in cricket history (Bradman). But to say there should only be five rankings between them I don't agree with. It's not that they're not close... it's just that there are so many close rankings that could go either way.

    For batsman better than Lara, I'd go with Bradman, V. Richards, Sobers, Hobbs, Tendulkar, Pollock, Gavaskar. For all-rounders better than Lara there's Sobers (of course), Imran Khan is a mile ahead of Lara if you look at Imran at his peak. Botham, Hadlee and Miller were better for me as all-rounders than Lara is with the ball. For bowlers I'd have Warne, Lillee, Marshall, Hadlee and Murali as better...

    Of course with time I'd have him over guys like Chappell... but the point is that it's close... very close. And for me, to say only five positions sepparate them when there've been so many great cricketers... well I don't agree with it. That point of the list is that guys are so close that it incites dicussion... that's why I posted it.

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    International Vice-Captain 33/3from3.3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUFAN View Post
    "So this is what it feels like to be on top of a batsmen".
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    International Regular Beleg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cric_manic
    ?

  15. #15
    First Class Debutant cric_manic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beleg
    ?
    Oh,i dont agree with your list,but it is just your opinion

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