What is a meaningless game ?

[Deja moo]

Over to you then - what should be the penalty for a captain failing to fulfil his obligations to those students of the game who wish to wrest every last drop out of a dead game?

I can only think of a few without resorting to extreme measures:

1. Deprive them of their match fee
2. Deprive them of their dinner
3. Deprive them of their liberty
4. Deprive them of their trousers and make them run the gauntlet of wet towels

There can be no penalty Its a game without a script. The assessment of whether or not a captain has fulfilled his obligations is therefore subjective and inconclusive.

 

[Deja moo]

You play an exhibition one dayer or two in the time left. I am sure they will like that better than the draw which is inevitable.

I think India did that with a team when a few days were rained off on an ocassion.. It was either Sri Lanka or West Indies - most likely Sri Lanka if I am not mistaken.

You really think the Indian fans in the stadium would have preferred an exhibition circus to the opportunity of witnessing quite a few records being broken ?

 

[luckyeddie]

There can be no penalty Its a game without a script. The assessment of whether or not a captain has fulfilled his obligations is therefore subjective and inconclusive.

So basically what you are saying is that you have deliberately wasted my time?

Top work.

 

[luckyeddie]

You really think the Indian fans in the stadium would have preferred an exhibition circus to the opportunity of witnessing quite a few records being broken ?

That'd be my fault then - I have been performing constant rain dances over the last 2 days.

Incidentally, how many Indian fans in the stadium were deprived in that way? 3 or 4?

 

[Pratters]

You really think the Indian fans in the stadium would have preferred an exhibition circus to the opportunity of witnessing quite a few records being broken ?

I havent said that.

I said 'If the captains agree about a draw'.

If Dravid would have decided to bat on, for records or batting practise in this case as opposed to a match scenario, the game would carry on.

Suppose Sehwag was out yesterday - wouldnt the crowd like an exhibition one dayer today. It would give some time in the middle for players as well, would bring in money and would be better than a boring day when a draw is a foregone conclusion.

 

[Deja moo]

That'd be my fault then - I have been performing constant rain dances over the last 2 days.

Incidentally, how many Indian fans in the stadium were deprived in that way? 3 or 4?

There was a sizeable group. Atleast 20, I'd say.

 

[Deja moo]

I havent said that.

I said 'If the captains agree about a draw'.

If Dravid would have decided to bat on, for records or batting practise in this case as opposed to a match scenario, the game would carry on.

Suppose Sehwag was out yesterday - wouldnt the crowd like an exhibition one dayer today. It would give some time in the middle for players as well, would bring in money and would be better than a boring day when a draw is a foregone conclusion.

Why would the two captains agree to a draw? Even if there are no records to be broken, it allows the batting team valuable match practice. Why would a batting team ever want to go off in situations like this ? I cannot think of any situation that both captains would agree to call off the game on a road like this. There will always be one team willing to stay on.

And there would be little money made since crowds will not flock in unless you publicise it in advance.

 

[Deja moo]

So basically what you are saying is that you have deliberately wasted my time?

Top work.

Were you being serious there ?

 

[Pratters]

Why would the two captains agree to a draw? Even if there are no records to be broken, it allows the batting team valuable match practice. Why would a batting team ever want to go off in situations like this ? I cannot think of any situation that both captains would agree to call off the game on a road like this. There will always be one team willing to stay on.

And there would be little money made since crowds will not flock in unless you publicise it in advance.

Adressing your first point - in the exhibition match more players get to spend time in the middle - both batsmen and bowlers. Its also light while serving the purpose of practise while playing. So captains would agree to draws barring a world record may be like today.

India and Sri Lanka/West Indies did in fact play an exhibition match after a limited overs or one day match had rain affecting it if I am not mistaken.

Regarding the second aspect - more people than people already there on the ground would obviously occur as a result of it. Also, TV ratings would go up. It would be entertaining for the spectators as well.

 

[Deja moo]

Adressing your first point - in the exhibition match more players get to spend time in the middle - both batsmen and bowlers. Its also light while serving the purpose of practise while playing. So captains would agree to draws barring a world record may be like today.

India and Sri Lanka/West Indies did in fact play an exhibition match after a limited overs or one day match had rain affecting it if I am not mistaken.

This is a test match they're playing, and the game they'll be playing next is also a test match. How does an exhibition match, which essentially involves limited overs, help the batsmen who would have batted ordinarily if the test had gone on ? Why increase the workload on your bowlers (who have already been overworked) when you can simply carry on with the test, allow your batsmen to work themselves in, and let the opposition bowlers bowl themselves to death ?

Regarding the second aspect - more people than people already there on the ground would obviously occur as a result of it. Also, TV ratings would go up. It would be entertaining for the spectators as well.

Ratings are a moot point. Teams would rather look after their bowlers than patronise a television channel. Spectators in search of such entertainment would be well advised to wait for the One day jamboree.

 

[luckyeddie]

Were you being serious there ?

Yes and no - a little tongue-in-cheek.

You seemed to be asking me a series of questions on more than one occasion and I attempted to answer them to the best of my ability (no problem with that at all), but you kept asking supplementals that seemed to be going nowhere.

As far as I am concerned, there is no way that captains should be permitted to call a match off with more than half an hour's play to go in the game - I thought that I was quite clear on that - but as far as that last half an hour which you seem to feel you are being deprived of, well if both captains decide that enough is enough, who cares about 8 overs of tedium?

It requires both captains to agree anyway - if one wishes to stay out there, the other has to - end of story.

 

[luckyeddie]

There was a sizeable group. Atleast 20, I'd say.

Surely once the chance of the record had gone then all interest in the game had too?

 

[Deja moo]

Yes and no - a little tongue-in-cheek.

You seemed to be asking me a series of questions on more than one occasion and I attempted to answer them to the best of my ability (no problem with that at all), but you kept asking supplementals that seemed to be going nowhere.

As far as I am concerned, there is no way that captains should be permitted to call a match off with more than half an hour's play to go in the game - I thought that I was quite clear on that - but as far as that last half an hour which you seem to feel you are being deprived of, well if both captains decide that enough is enough, who cares about 8 overs of tedium?

It requires both captains to agree anyway - if one wishes to stay out there, the other has to - end of story.

I apologise if you felt I was leading you around Stuff keeps popping up in my mind the more I think about a particular issue. The questions were merely attempts at covering all possible eventualities that could arise if such a rule came to be. I wasnt protesting the last hour as the rule allows currently, I too am fine with that...I was protesting the suggestion that they be allowed to call off the match at their own discretion before that last hour.

 

[Deja moo]

Surely once the chance of the record had gone then all interest in the game had too?

The Indian batsmen to follow hadnt batted at all in the match while almost all the Pakistani batsmen had runs under their belt. It would have been match practise for them ahead of the second test.

 

[PY]

The Indian batsmen to follow hadnt batted at all in the match while almost all the Pakistani batsmen had runs under their belt. It would have been match practise for them ahead of the second test.

Not much of a match practice though, the nets would possibly be more demanding than this Test match. And it's not like there's a young middle-order that needs blooding or anything!

 

[Deja moo]

Oh C'mon.... could you get Shoaib and Kaneria to bowl at you in the nets ?

 

[luckyeddie]

I apologise if you felt I was leading you around Stuff keeps popping up in my mind the more I think about a particular issue. The questions were merely attempts at covering all possible eventualities that could arise if such a rule came to be. I wasnt protesting the last hour as the rule allows currently, I too am fine with that...I was protesting the suggestion that they be allowed to call off the match at their own discretion before that last hour.

S'all right.

The only other one I can remember recently where they took advantage of the light to clear off before the scheduled close was at The Oval (sorry, Social ) where Harmy whacked a couple of bouncers down and struck Justin Langer for old time's sake in that meaningless last over and the umpires took everyone off. Everyone (sorry, Social ) sat around for ages just waiting to celebrate - I was in the pub getting a head start.

Mind you, that had that memorable (sorry, Social ) melodrama of Rudi and Billy strolling out to the middle and removing the bails - the signal for The Oval to go bonkers (sorry again, Social ).

 

[PY]

Oh C'mon.... could you get Shoaib and Kaneria to bowl at you in the nets ?

Merlin and Mr B Machine are your best friends in the nets.

Nah, I know what you mean but batting appears to have been so easy that it hasn't challenged either side at all to any decent degree so I'm not sure match practice would be that helpful would it?

 

[luckyeddie]

The Indian batsmen to follow hadnt batted at all in the match while almost all the Pakistani batsmen had runs under their belt. It would have been match practise for them ahead of the second test.

That surely would have been for the Indian captain to suggest. If there's more than half an hour to go and he insisted on that approach and I'd have been running the show, Inzy would have had a bowl from one end and Salman Butt from the other end with 9 men on the fence.

Edit:

underarm.

 

[Deja moo]

Merlin and Mr B Machine are your best friends in the nets.

Nah, I know what you mean but batting appears to have been so easy that it hasn't challenged either side at all to any decent degree so I'm not sure match practice would be that helpful would it?

Actually Shoaib was quick and bowled with a plan. He had figures of 15-?-45-0 at close of play on day 4. Plus theres the perverse pleasure/psychological ploy of grinding the bowlers further into the ground