Indian ODI team discussion thread

[Run like Inzy]

Well I agree with bharani here, Kaarthick must be given the nod. If you think the 93 against Pakistan was his only contribution, you should have seen his batting in the U-19 world cup last year. He annhilated all the attacks, scoring at massive strike rates. He dominated the Sri Lankan attack. True, the bowling attack did not have a McGrath or Pollock, but his dominance was unmissable.

He is a better wicketkeeper than Dhoni without doubt, but he is also a very good batsman. He has the ability to hit the ball hard. He seems much more leve headed, and his batting and keeping techniques are better than Dhoni, who is just slam-bang hit-out-or-get-out types. I will certainly pick Kaarthick over Dhoni.

By the way, why are you guys talking about changing keepers, isn't the main issue their inconsistent bowling? What is wrong with Dhoni in ODI's and Karthick in tests?

 

[Arjun]

Why do India continue to fail? I just don't get it. They have a star studded line up in batting, a pace battery which is young and talented but they just don't perform. Can anyone give a decent explanation?

The problem is that there are too many starts and too few team men. They don't need so many stars. They need a genuine all-rounder or two, who can hit big shots thick and fast. They can help themselves a lot by persisting with prospects and giving them a full role. Fielding is another isue that needs to be addressed.

 

[Arjun]

SANJAY BANGAR-

• Profile- Steady medium-pacer and hard-hitting batsman who opens the batting and bowls first-change for Railways. Has played a few Tests and ODI's for India in the recent past.
• Strengths- Steady wicket-to-wicket bowler who can move the ball both ways and get good bounce. Neat action. Clean striker of the ball with good technique. A team man in all respects, he'll try his best at whatever he's asked to do.
• Weaknesses- Not the most skilled in any particular facet. Lacks pace (who doesn't?) as a bowler. His fielding is a bit suspect and he's not the fastest between wickets.
• Opportunities- The team needs a fifth stock bowling option in the middle overs. He's a better batsman and fielder than the out-of-form Kumble. They need more attack power in their batting, which he can provide.
• Threats- The captain is often afraid of taking risks, particularly with all-rounders. Medium-pace is often easy to hit around the park.
• Preferred role- Attacker at seven/eight, full-time second-change seamer

 

[Arjun]

AMIT MISHRA

• Profile- Leg-spinner and strike bowler for Haryana, who has often played for India-A and BPresXI and even got two ODI's playing for India.
• Strengths- Actually turns the ball and gets decent bounce. Adequate batting and fielding abilities exist for ODI's.
• Weaknesses- May be an easy target in ODI's, given his style. Tries hard for wickets ignoring econmy.
• Opportunities- Kumble's out of form and most probably out of contention in ODI's. Harbhajan needs a partner. Mishra is the next best strike spinner after Kumble and Harbhajan, if you're looking for one in ODI's.
• Threats- Leg-spinners may be targets for batsmen looking to hit over the top. ODI-readiness is in doubt.
• Preferred role- Full-time strike spinner. Must try hard for wickets.

 

[ramkumar_gr]

SANJAY BANGAR-

• Profile- Steady medium-pacer and hard-hitting batsman who opens the batting and bowls first-change for Railways. Has played a few Tests and ODI's for India in the recent past.
• Strengths- Steady wicket-to-wicket bowler who can move the ball both ways and get good bounce. Neat action. Clean striker of the ball with good technique. A team man in all respects, he'll try his best at whatever he's asked to do.
• Weaknesses- Not the most skilled in any particular facet. Lacks pace (who doesn't?) as a bowler. His fielding is a bit suspect and he's not the fastest between wickets.
• Opportunities- The team needs a fifth stock bowling option in the middle overs. He's a better batsman and fielder than the out-of-form Kumble. They need more attack power in their batting, which he can provide.
• Threats- The captain is often afraid of taking risks, particularly with all-rounders. Medium-pace is often easy to hit around the park.
• Preferred role- Attacker at seven/eight, full-time second-change seamer

I totally agree with you on this front. Bangar should be part of both test and ODI teams. Let the selectors show some respect for the Ranji Trophy performances. Railways are the champions and you dont see a single player from the team for Tests. Definitely Bangar, JP Yadav and Amit Pagnis deserves to be included.

Atleast 2 players are there in the ODI side (Murali and JP).

Bangar as you say is a big hitter of the ball in ODIs and he has really performed well in Tests.

 

[honestbharani]

Bangar's biggest problem is his running between the wickets. He gets a lot of people run out. And he has too long a run up for his pace and he bowls too many short stuff for his pace. I cannot see him being the decent all rounder we want.

 

[rohansen]

What is it about Agarkar

One important aspect on this discussion on India's team is the inclusion of Ajit Agarkar. As I see it Inida has 5 fast bowlers, Irfan Pathan, Zaheer Khan, Ashish Nehra, Balaji and Agarkar. But its rare to see all of them perform together. Agarkar supposed to be the most promising has been patchy. Balaji the more consistent has been dropped. Why? Its not helping Balaji nor Agarkar as the former would be discouraged and the Agarkar would feel that if not for this series maybe the next. Check this article for an analysis of the two bowlers.

 

[ramkumar_gr]

Bangar's biggest problem is his running between the wickets. He gets a lot of people run out. And he has too long a run up for his pace and he bowls too many short stuff for his pace. I cannot see him being the decent all rounder we want.

Even if i agree with you on his running between the wickets' skills, how about his place in the test team. I would like to see him replace Gambhir, who for sure, will come a cropper against quality bowling as he proved against Australia. scored single digit in both innings.
His one century came against a hapless bangladesh side.
Bangar has played a few memorable innings against quality attacks.

 

[ramkumar_gr]

I can see why England might be ruing the day they picked Geraint Jones. After all, he may let away the Ashes. I see the same thing happening to India if they persist with Dhoni. It is not inconceivable that he may well put down the catch that costs India a trophy or two.

I agree with you on this. Dhoni is a pathetic wicket keeper and his batting style will result in more failures than successes.

It is time Dinesh Kaarthick is made a regular member in the ODIs too.

He is an agressive cricketer and given a longer run in ODIs, he will become a match winner in his own self.

 

[ramkumar_gr]

Kaif has been batting at the wrong position for far too long, and that may have warped his batting. He's played a few match-winning innings which mattered- such as those in the Natwest final of 2002, then the fourth Samsung cup ODI in Lahore, then recently this match against WI in Colombo. He's got everything you need in an ODI batsman and his fielding/running skills are top notch, but he lacks power.

And the talking point has been your last 4 words. He lacks power. He cant hit boundaries. He cant play big shots. What mould his batting his. You cant always hit singles to chase a score in excess of 300. How many matches India had lost because of his lack of big hitting skills. Even in the Ind vs SL final, two big hits would have turned the match India's favour.

And talking about the position, he had batted atleast 15-20 times in the top order. What has he done. he might score you a 100 ball 50. Thatz the best he could do.

Why dont you have a hitter like Vidyut at the position, who is a decent bowler and also a good fielder.

 

[Arjun]

Bangar's biggest problem is his running between the wickets. He gets a lot of people run out. And he has too long a run up for his pace and he bowls too many short stuff for his pace. I cannot see him being the decent all rounder we want.

Bangar's only got Ganguly run out, and that's why he's often associated with run-outs- Ganguly himself is slow, erratic and lazy between wickets. His only problem is speed, but he can work on that. Run-up is no issue- if he's told, he'll change it, and he's bowled from a shorter run-up in the recent Kenstar series (nearly two years ago) so he's worked on that. Besides, he's only needed as a big-hitter at seven/eight and a full-time stock bowler, a role vacant in the Indian ODI side, and is worth backing for that.

The Indians are not doing well at all without an all-rounder, so they could use Bangar's skills and power until they find new, young contenders. When the Indian team has Balaji as an opening bowler and Yuvraj as a frontline batsman, why not have Bangar as an all-rounder? But skills are not an issue- he's a team man and the Indians can use a few. His temperament (Yuvraj and Irfan are way too vocal and brash) can help the team a lot, when in tough spots. He plays to a task and that's enough. There's no point comparing him to the best in action- he's good enough for India and that's all that matters.

 

[Arjun]

And the talking point has been your last 4 words. He lacks power. He cant hit boundaries. He cant play big shots. What mould his batting his. You cant always hit singles to chase a score in excess of 300. How many matches India had lost because of his lack of big hitting skills. Even in the Ind vs SL final, two big hits would have turned the match India's favour.

And talking about the position, he had batted atleast 15-20 times in the top order. What has he done. he might score you a 100 ball 50. Thatz the best he could do.

Why dont you have a hitter like Vidyut at the position, who is a decent bowler and also a good fielder.

You're just looking at individual skills. Look at him from all angles, as well as his role in the team. He's no Tendulkar, but he's a team man. He helps the frontliners build partnerships. He's a fast runner between wickets. He is an excellent fielder. He has no temperamental issues. All in all, a true team player, which the Indian team can use.

 

[ramkumar_gr]

You're just looking at individual skills. Look at him from all angles, as well as his role in the team. He's no Tendulkar, but he's a team man. He helps the frontliners build partnerships. He's a fast runner between wickets. He is an excellent fielder. He has no temperamental issues. All in all, a true team player, which the Indian team can use.

Why are u ignoring my argument. If he had hit two sixers in the final, India would have won.
I feel JP Yadav or Vidyut would have been a better bet at No.7. Any big hitter would be better off at that position.

 

[honestbharani]

Bangar's only got Ganguly run out, and that's why he's often associated with run-outs- Ganguly himself is slow, erratic and lazy between wickets. His only problem is speed, but he can work on that. Run-up is no issue- if he's told, he'll change it, and he's bowled from a shorter run-up in the recent Kenstar series (nearly two years ago) so he's worked on that. Besides, he's only needed as a big-hitter at seven/eight and a full-time stock bowler, a role vacant in the Indian ODI side, and is worth backing for that.

The Indians are not doing well at all without an all-rounder, so they could use Bangar's skills and power until they find new, young contenders. When the Indian team has Balaji as an opening bowler and Yuvraj as a frontline batsman, why not have Bangar as an all-rounder? But skills are not an issue- he's a team man and the Indians can use a few. His temperament (Yuvraj and Irfan are way too vocal and brash) can help the team a lot, when in tough spots. He plays to a task and that's enough. There's no point comparing him to the best in action- he's good enough for India and that's all that matters.

not really. In the NZ series before the WC, he got a couple of others, including Dravid and Agarkar, run out. I just watched the highlights on Star.

 

[adharcric]

well, bangar definitely doesnt deserve a chance until jp yadav gets one, and for that matter, until guys like ramesh powar get one ...

 

[Indian god]

Jp yadav should be in the team , He is a fine batsmen , a good eco bowler , and a fine fielder , J sharmas a good talented all rounder too.

 

[Swervy]

Why do India continue to fail? I just don't get it. They have a star studded line up in batting, a pace battery which is young and talented but they just don't perform. Can anyone give a decent explanation?

because they are the epitome of an overrated team..people look at individual talent of the batsmen and assume that make a good team...the bowling is poor apart (it is flattering to call it a pace battery) from the spinners...and if you ever put an Indian team under pressure it cracks

 

[Indian god]

Its the bowling thats letting india down , out of the 4 bowlers 1 day , pathan will do well and the others bowl totel rubbish , then the next match z khan will bowl well , and pathan might be expensive , and its the bottem 4 thats losing india the game , they dont hang around for too long , and its totel rubbish that india cracks under pressure , its the lower order thats getting out to fualty shots at the wrong time .

 

[GladiatrsInBlue]

The Indians are not doing well at all without an all-rounder, so they could use Bangar's skills and power until they find new, young contenders. QUOTE]

All they need 2 do is 2 promote IKP to number 7th slot. If confidence is shown then IKP will prove 2 be the best allrounder India ever had.

 

[Swervy]

Its the bowling thats letting india down , out of the 4 bowlers 1 day , pathan will do well and the others bowl totel rubbish , then the next match z khan will bowl well , and pathan might be expensive , and its the bottem 4 thats losing india the game , they dont hang around for too long , and its totel rubbish that india cracks under pressure , its the lower order thats getting out to fualty shots at the wrong time .

you cannot blame the lower order, someone from the top order has to take responsibility as well.

India have lost 15 of the last 16 finals they have been in...in the last one, one of the established batsmen had to go on to stay in at the end with a big innings , it didnt happen,same with the final before that....its always happening..if thats not cracking under pressure, I dont know what is