England vs Australia - Who has the best depth?

[Richard]

Originally Posted by FaaipDeOiad

Giles economy rate is nothing special though. In fact, it's worse than most of the other good spinners in world cricket.

Economy rates, for comparison:
Murali - 2.38
Kumble - 2.62
Warne - 2.64
Vettori - 2.67
Harbhajan - 2.79
Giles - 2.85
Kaneria - 3.04
MacGill - 3.15

Now, strike rates...
MacGill 52.07
Murali - 55.99
Warne - 57.51
Kaneria - 61.16
Harbhajan - 64.90
Kumble - 65.79
Vettori - 77.45
Giles - 83.49

It really is remarkable how good MacGill's is, which is why people bring it up so much. To find a spinner with a strike rate like that, you have to go back to the 19th century.

And you can clearly split it into 3 parts - 47.4, 70.9 and 40.6.
Giles doesn't tend to be that economical when batsmen go after him on non-turning pitches - best demonstrated by South Africa in 2003.

[Son Of Coco]

Originally Posted by Richard

I think I do.

Well...the ball's in your court.

The best way you could prove it to stop talking about it IMO. Otherwise the evidence for the negative just keeps growing.

[Richard]

The ball's certainly not in my court if you've put the "shut up or you're just digging yourself" proposition to me.

[Son Of Coco]

Originally Posted by Richard

The ball's certainly not in my court if you've put the "shut up or you're just digging yourself" proposition to me.

You're right, it's a bit unfair

[Richard]

You're in a mood of late...
I've counted 4 or 5 of those in this forum in your most recent replies...

[LongHopCassidy]

Originally Posted by Richard

And you can clearly split it into 3 parts - 47.4, 70.9 and 40.6.
Giles doesn't tend to be that economical when batsmen go after him on non-turning pitches - best demonstrated by South Africa in 2003.

You have a nasty habit of pointing out the absolute nadir of a playing period to judge a player, which you use to vindicate your point. The stats all average out in the end.

It's irrelevant unless we're discussing a player's form, which we're certainly not.

[Richard]

I'd say the fact that MacGill's nadir was longer in length than his good start (816.1 overs to 521.3) and the fact that the good came before the bat means quite a bit.
"Form" is a very bad word for the said periods, anyway. No-one can be "in form" for 14 games over 3 years then "out of form" for 16 over another 3.

[LongHopCassidy]

It's easier if you observe them bowling instead of making deductions from statistics.

[Richard]

I certainly watched MacGill in 1998\99, and I certainly watched him plenty in 2000\01, 2002\03, 2003\04 and 2005\06.
I don't actually think he ever bowled that well - certainly was IMO hugely flattered by his figures in 1998\99, England's inability to play even the worst legspin contributing far more than any superbness on his part.

[LongHopCassidy]

Well, Warnie returned far worse figures during that time. Do you honestly believe every side suddenly loses their talent at playing leg-spin when MacGill gets tossed the ball?

Because that seems to be your only argument to discredit his excellent figures.

[Richard]

Err, no. If you look carefully MacGill doesn't have good figures of late.
As for England in that Ashes - Warne played just 1 game, when returning from injury. As such, he bowled pretty poorly.

[LongHopCassidy]

8-108 from a team total of 430-odd?

Even you would take those figures.

[Richard]

I'm talking against Test-standard teams, chum...

[Hero_Don]

Originally Posted by FaaipDeOiad

Yeah the captaincy depth thing is rubbish.

Regarding the bowling, Engalnd's severe lack of spin depth is a worry. They have a passable option in Giles, and a fair amount of crap behind him. Australia have MacGill who is certainly the best spinner in the world who isn't a test regular, and with Cullen, Bailey, Casson and such have a fair amount of domestic depth as well.

.

Cullen, Bailey and Casson, are useless at the moment basically. I would rather just let Micheal Clarke roll his arm over than bothering to play them. Cullen has potential, however he is not delivering enough at the moment, as for the other 2, have the potential to be servicable domestic spinners, but they should never play for Australia.

[AussieDominance]

Cullen is not delivering enough are you kidding me he has only had a few one dayers and 1 test?