What would it take for Joe Root to surpass Steve Smith as a Test Batter?

[GIMH]

Are Broad and Anderson better in England than Cummins, Hazlewood, Starc, Boland?

Yes

 

[GIMH]

I said earlier in the thread I don't think there is a realistic scenario where Root can overtake Smith. I don't think Smith will decline that much and I don't think Root will go on a golden run for 2 or 3 years that would have to be up there with Smiths peak.

But it is possible and should that happen then we'd have to reassess boths ratings surely?

Personally I don't necessarily agree with it but Pontings rating certainly took a hit with his form form in his last few years. If Smith does do something similar he could well drop out of the BAB discussions.

Interesting though because I still probably rate Ponting as the best I’ve ever watched. I’ve never really felt that about Smith, but he’s very good at you know, not getting out.

 

[Adders]

Interesting though because I still probably rate Ponting as the best I’ve ever watched. I’ve never really felt that about Smith, but he’s very good at you know, not getting out.

Totally agree......I think others mark down Ponting for his last couple of years but I don't......I genuinely think he was doing the best for the team at the time. Smith might find himself in the same situation with the lack of quality bats coming through.

Not sure theres a decent argument to be made for Ponting over Smith but im like you....... Ponting put the fear into me like no other. Weird cos its not like Smith hasnt feasted on us.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Ponting was more susceptible to age-related decline than Smith will be. He relied heavily on being in position early, particularly to play the drives and pull. When he lost that early pick up and reaction time he degraded rapidly, struggling to score even on flat early 2010s wickets.

Smith is a crab hack that could be blind and still manage to grind his way to a ~40 average because he has a solid technique that works for him and is a master at adjusting to bowling and conditions. He's managed to average 50 in the last couple years in his mid-late 30s despite playing mostly on greentops

 

[Burgey]

Worth remembering that Smith's greatest series (2019) was when Anderson only bowled 4 overs.

Anderson not playing strengthened England. His Ashes record is borderline tragic

 

[Burgey]

Smith’s 80 innings peak was 78, which iirc is second to Bradman.

Root’s a very good player but Smith’s just another order of magnitude better. Root is arguably the best English batsman since Boycott or Barrington; Smith is aruably the best batsman since Bradman. I’ve seen plenty of blokes who look better and who hit the ball harder, but I’ve never seen a bloke as adaptable as Smith at the crease. You can see him problem solving while he bats.

I missed Sobers by a fraction, but I saw Chappell, Richards, Gavaskar and all of the great players since then including Lara and Tendulkar. I don’t know which of them is categorically the best, but I know Smith belongs in that discussion. Root does not.

Theres no shame in that for Root, just as there’s no shame for Ponting in being a level below Lara and Tendulkar. It doesn’t mean he’s special needs, it just means he isn’t as good. He will finish closer to Pietersen-level than he does to Smith

 

[Coronis]

Smith’s 80 innings peak was 78, which iirc is second to Bradman.

Root’s a very good player but Smith’s just another order of magnitude better. Root is arguably the best English batsman since Boycott or Barrington; Smith is aruably the best batsman since Bradman. I’ve seen plenty of blokes who look better and who hit the ball harder, but I’ve never seen a bloke as adaptable as Smith at the crease. You can see him problem solving while he bats.

I missed Sobers by a fraction, but I saw Chappell, Richards, Gavaskar and all of the great players since then including Lara and Tendulkar. I don’t know which of them is categorically the best, but I know Smith belongs in that discussion. Root does not.

Theres no shame in that for Root, just as there’s no shame for Ponting in being a level below Lara and Tendulkar. It doesn’t mean he’s special needs, it just means he isn’t as good. He will finish closer to Pietersen-level than he does to Smith

What a level headed and well thought out post.




Are you dying?

 

[kyear2]

All that is fine and dandy, what's his average though? if it's high enough, he wouldn't need so many excuses to be placed in the BAB tier.

Do you know the reason between reasons and excuses?

And context is important. He's the only batsman in this discussion who never faced minnows nor had a dead pitch era. He didn't get to gorge to inflate his average.

And even then

Rpi for Tendulkar 48.39, Viv 46.92

Take away the minnows, Sachin drops to 46.34

Viv doesn't have a production problem.

And on top of that, he played to win. He's every bit the batsman that Sachin and Sobers are, none of them touches Hobbs.

Then there's Viv's average vs the best bowlers of his era, clearly higher than what Sachin managed.

This notion that Viv's legacy is based on aura or swagger is ignorance and selective if not prejudiced listening.

 

[kyear2]

Totally agree......I think others mark down Ponting for his last couple of years but I don't......I genuinely think he was doing the best for the team at the time. Smith might find himself in the same situation with the lack of quality bats coming through.

Not sure theres a decent argument to be made for Ponting over Smith but im like you....... Ponting put the fear into me like no other. Weird cos its not like Smith hasnt feasted on us.

Exactly.

And yes there are still many that rate Punter ahead of Smith.

 

[kyear2]

Smith’s 80 innings peak was 78, which iirc is second to Bradman.

Root’s a very good player but Smith’s just another order of magnitude better. Root is arguably the best English batsman since Boycott or Barrington; Smith is aruably the best batsman since Bradman. I’ve seen plenty of blokes who look better and who hit the ball harder, but I’ve never seen a bloke as adaptable as Smith at the crease. You can see him problem solving while he bats.

I missed Sobers by a fraction, but I saw Chappell, Richards, Gavaskar and all of the great players since then including Lara and Tendulkar. I don’t know which of them is categorically the best, but I know Smith belongs in that discussion. Root does not.

Theres no shame in that for Root, just as there’s no shame for Ponting in being a level below Lara and Tendulkar. It doesn’t mean he’s special needs, it just means he isn’t as good. He will finish closer to Pietersen-level than he does to Smith

Love everything about this.

 

[Adders]

Smith’s 80 innings peak was 78, which iirc is second to Bradman.

Root’s a very good player but Smith’s just another order of magnitude better. Root is arguably the best English batsman since Boycott or Barrington; Smith is aruably the best batsman since Bradman. I’ve seen plenty of blokes who look better and who hit the ball harder, but I’ve never seen a bloke as adaptable as Smith at the crease. You can see him problem solving while he bats.

I missed Sobers by a fraction, but I saw Chappell, Richards, Gavaskar and all of the great players since then including Lara and Tendulkar. I don’t know which of them is categorically the best, but I know Smith belongs in that discussion. Root does not.

Theres no shame in that for Root, just as there’s no shame for Ponting in being a level below Lara and Tendulkar. It doesn’t mean he’s special needs, it just means he isn’t as good. He will finish closer to Pietersen-level than he does to Smith

Who are you and what have you done with @Burgey ??

 

[honestbharani]

Who are you and what have you done with @Burgey ??

Posted from the wrong account. sorry fellas.

 

[Adders]

Mods???

 

[Gob]

Smith’s 80 innings peak was 78, which iirc is second to Bradman.

Root’s a very good player but Smith’s just another order of magnitude better. Root is arguably the best English batsman since Boycott or Barrington; Smith is aruably the best batsman since Bradman. I’ve seen plenty of blokes who look better and who hit the ball harder, but I’ve never seen a bloke as adaptable as Smith at the crease. You can see him problem solving while he bats.

I missed Sobers by a fraction, but I saw Chappell, Richards, Gavaskar and all of the great players since then including Lara and Tendulkar. I don’t know which of them is categorically the best, but I know Smith belongs in that discussion. Root does not.

Theres no shame in that for Root, just as there’s no shame for Ponting in being a level below Lara and Tendulkar. It doesn’t mean he’s special needs, it just means he isn’t as good. He will finish closer to Pietersen-level than he does to Smith

This is disappointing. Lift your game

Nah I have nothing but respect for Root for what he has done since 2019.

It's just that I haven't seen anything like what Smith was from 2014 to 2019. The best compliment I have for him is that whenever he failed to score a century in that period, especially in the first and second innings of a test, I felt disappointed. Can't believe that he is 37 and will be gone in 18 months time and Root too not soon after and cricket will be poorer after that

This is the last time that I'm going to say anything nice about joe root till after the next ashes

 

[Fuller Pilch]

What a level headed and well thought out post.




Are you dying?

Didn't even mention Border among the great batsmen he's seen

 

[Burgey]

Didn't even mention Border among the great batsmen he's seen

Why would I take the Lord’s name in vain?

 

[honestbharani]

Why would I take the Lord’s name in vain?

 

[Shri]

Of course Hutton and Sobers are a tier above Viv. No one has to do mental gymnastics about aura farming to justify the majority of their careers.

if you only play one format, you gotta be either bradman or headley. hutton hobbs etc shouldn't be considered for best players discussion

 

[Johan]

And yes there are still many that rate Punter ahead of Smith.

Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.

 

[IcarianStyles]

Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.

Modern Australia hierarchy of great batters produced

1970s - Greg Chappell
1980s - Allan Border
1990s - Steve Waugh
2000s - Ricky Ponting
2010s - Steve Smith

You talk to enough Australians that grew up with a certain era and I'm sure they can argue for example, Waugh over Ponting for example.


Hopefully Cameron Green follows this for 2020s decade...