What does Bumrah need to achieve to overtake Sachin?

[ankitj]

Do you have Bumrah higher quality than Curtly

Why not? That shouldn't be an absurdity.

 

[Thala_0710]

Do you have Bumrah higher quality than Curtly

Quality wise yes... Think he has a more well rounded set of skills available to him... More complete in a sense, similar to Marshall

 

[subshakerz]

Perth 2024 was a standout match performance.

You also gotta take into account the fact that he has player of the series awards in three different major countries - SA, England and Australia (don't know how he avoided getting one in West Indies in 2019). Now, I don't think lack of series awards should be held against any player because they are a rarity. But presence of multiple of them in multiple countries (so not Ashwin/Jadeja) elevates a players career achievements.

I think that's fine but those POS awards are something others share as well. I am more talking about running through a side. Even Perth though amazing wasn't that.

 

[Johan]

Why not? That shouldn't be an absurdity.

it's not an absurdity but a point of disagreement

 

[Johan]

Quality wise yes... Think he has a more well rounded set of skills available to him... More complete in a sense, similar to Marshall

I don't know, Ambrose averaged 19 odd in his career minus a illness series and his debut series. I'd rate them on par skill wise

 

[subshakerz]

Quality wise yes... Think he has a more well rounded set of skills available to him... More complete in a sense, similar to Marshall

Bumrah is definitely better than Ambrose as far as quality is concerned. Just not record yet.

 

[subshakerz]

I don't know, Ambrose averaged 19 odd in his career minus a illness series and his debut series. I'd rate them on par skill wise

Ambrose is nowhere near as skilled as Bumrah except for accuracy. Has a limited toolkit.

 

[Johan]

Ambrose is nowhere near as skilled as Bumrah except for accuracy. Has a limited toolkit.

better user of the seam of the ball, and his physiology goes in his favour a lot. Bumrah obviously a vaster toolkit

 

[Thala_0710]

better user of the seam of the ball, and his physiology goes in his favour a lot. Bumrah obviously a vaster toolkit

Don't agree with the seam bit, Bumrah seams it both ways with very good control, and has the wobble seam available to him as well, Ambrose was a bit more pitch dependent though imo. The physiology definitely favours Ambrose. Though Bumrah's unconventional action helps him a bit as well.
Think Bumrah is better at swing (both conventional and reverse) and better at varying lengths as and when required

 

[subshakerz]

better user of the seam of the ball, and his physiology goes in his favour a lot. Bumrah obviously a vaster toolkit

Yes Ambrose with his physiology and bounce, pace and height just could land it in the same areas and get results. But not skills that are adaptable across surfaces which is why he was much more blockable once he lost his pace.

 

[Johan]

Don't agree with the seam bit, Bumrah seams it both ways with very good control, and has the wobble seam available to him as well, Ambrose was a bit more pitch dependent though imo. The physiology definitely favours Ambrose. Though Bumrah's unconventional action helps him a bit as well.
Think Bumrah is better at swing (both conventional and reverse) and better at varying lengths as and when required

Bumrah is better at both forms of swing and varying lengths, Ambrose is more accurate and uses the seam well, Ambrose also had the wobble seam in a way, Ambrose generally an ATG user of the seam so I'd give it to him. They're both good with cutters afaik, Ambrose had a very mean cutter. Bumrah's physiology gives him a closer release point to the batsman which means his effective speed is higher while Ambrose extracts more awkward bounce and lift off the deck.

Overall, I don't think they are much different in ability.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Not really. I would still go with Maco because of average boost of era, lack of standout match performances and lack of durability.

The other stuff is fair but Bumrah does not lack these at all surely. He's bowled so many mind boggling spells.

 

[Zinzan]

To match ST at Test level, he basically needs to end his career being universally regarded as one of the top 5 pace bowlers in Test history just as ST is widely viewed as a top 5 bat.

 

[subshakerz]

The other stuff is fair but Bumrah does not lack these at all surely. He's bowled so many mind boggling spells.

He has great spells but I am talking about running through a side. Equivalent of double tons for bats.

 

[subshakerz]

To match ST at Test level, he basically needs to end his career being universally regarded as one of the top 5 pace bowlers in Test history just as ST is widely viewed as a top 5 bat.

I still regard Sachin as better than those pacers so for me Bumrah would have to be no.1

 

[ankitj]

I think that's fine but those POS awards are something others share as well. I am more talking about running through a side. Even Perth though amazing wasn't that.

Bro come on. We were out for 150 or something in the first innings. We were not winning the test without that extraordinary spell at all.

On PoS awards you'll find that even Ambrose and McGrath have not won in 3 different away countries. It's only Marshall, Hadlee and Imran among great pace bowlers that have achieved this.

 

[ankitj]

He has great spells but I am talking about running through a side. Equivalent of double tons for bats.

So ten-fers? Just say that.

 

[Zinzan]

I still regard Sachin as better than those pacers so for me Bumrah would have to be no.1

Sounds like a rare take to me, but alrighty.

 

[TheJediBrah]

McGrath, Hadlee, Marshall > Sachin > Bumrah

 

[DrWolverine]

Do you have Bumrah higher quality than Curtly

Quality wise, yes.