What does Bumrah need to achieve to overtake Sachin?

[Johan]

The avg boost of era isn't that high with Marshall tbh (as compared to Mcgrath, Steyn let's say). Bumrah too I think has quite a few standout match and series performances, agree with the durability point though. Will need to make that up by some longevity or having an insane record hereafter as well

It's pretty big

 

[subshakerz]

The avg boost of era isn't that high with Marshall tbh (as compared to Mcgrath, Steyn let's say). Bumrah too I think has quite a few standout match and series performances, agree with the durability point though. Will need to make that up by some longevity or having an insane record hereafter as well

I would like Bumrah to take a couple of tenfers and have a 7fer where he really carves through a side.

Marshall did that vs England and Australia in sides backed with pacers, very impressive.

 

[Thala_0710]

It's pretty big

Well some of it is made up by the home conditions difference... Other pacers in Bumrah's home games avg 33.2 whereas it was 29.3 for Marshall...
Ofc some of it is down to Marshall playing with a better bowling line up, but he also played with better batsmen (especially vs pace) than Bumrah...
On match factor both Bumrah and Marshall both come out approximately the same... Don't think era is that big of a factor honestly

 

[Coronis]

Given where Bumrah is at now, what would he need to achieve from here to be India's greatest cricketer?

He can’t.

 

[DrWolverine]

Bumrah was full time at 25 too but was always broken. He also played for what was at the time a pretty decent Indian side.

33 is also not that crazy of an age for a pacer to retire.

Bumrah’s biggest minus has always been his durability and everyone agrees to it.

Maco retired early because of politics and in a way it helped his record As skilled as he was, he relied on pace. Imran, Donald, Steyn etc all suffered in their last stages.

 

[subshakerz]

Bumrah was full time at 25 too but was always broken. He also played for what was at the time a pretty decent Indian side.

33 is also not that crazy of an age for a pacer to retire.

33 kinda is compared to other ATG pacers who retired mid to late 30s. Those last few years are when your wicket taking and average takes a dip.

 

[DrWolverine]

He can’t.

True.

Quality wise, he is up there. But in terms of actual achievements, Top 3 if I am generous.

 

[Thala_0710]

True.

Quality wise, he is up there. But in terms of actual achievements, Top 3 if I am generous.

What do you mean by actual achievements

 

[manoftommorow]

at least 450 wickets

 

[Thala_0710]

I would like Bumrah to take a couple of tenfers and have a 7fer where he really carves through a side.

Marshall did that vs England and Australia in sides backed with pacers, very impressive.

Don't think it's that big of a deal... He has plenty of 6fers and 9fers... He has run through sides in SA, AUS, ENG and home.. Many times taking majority of the top 7 with him... Don't think it should matter much if he had a wkt more on a couple of occassions

 

[Johan]

Well some of it is made up by the home conditions difference... Other pacers in Bumrah's home games avg 33.2 whereas it was 29.3 for Marshall...
Ofc some of it is down to Marshall playing with a better bowling line up, but he also played with better batsmen (especially vs pace) than Bumrah...
On match factor both Bumrah and Marshall both come out approximately the same... Don't think era is that big of a factor honestly

Bumrah has had some very generous wickets in South Africa and a minnow lineup in West Indies, I don't think he even beats Marshall on raw averages without those

 

[Thala_0710]

Bumrah has had some very generous wickets in South Africa and a minnow lineup in West Indies, I don't think he even beats Marshall on raw averages without those

He's played a total of 4 tests vs Wi... He's definitely had quite helpful wickets in Sa but again Marshall had quite friendly wickets some times as well, Pakistan for example

 

[Johan]

He's played a total of 4 tests vs Wi... He's definitely had quite helpful wickets in Sa but again Marshall had quite friendly wickets some times as well, Pakistan for example

His career average without WI is basically what Ambrose and Marshall averaged accross careers bro

 

[Thala_0710]

He's played a total of 4 tests vs Wi... He's definitely had quite helpful wickets in Sa but again Marshall had quite friendly wickets some times as well, Pakistan for example

Other pacers in Marshall's games in Pakistan avged 18.2, other pacers in Bumrah's games in Sa avg 20.9... It's quite a big gap actually

 

[subshakerz]

Don't think it's that big of a deal... He has plenty of 6fers and 9fers... He has run through sides in SA, AUS, ENG and home.. Many times taking majority of the top 7 with him... Don't think it should matter much if he had a wkt more on a couple of occassions

I dunno. To me, it's like a batsman without a double ton and saying he has a bunch of 180s.

There is just something seriously impressive about dominating an inning or game like that.

 

[ankitj]

With the exception of NewZealand where he has played just 2 Tests, he has been excellent everywhere

Only relevant for checklisters

 

[Thala_0710]

His career average without WI is basically what Ambrose and Marshall averaged accross careers bro

He avgs 19.8 overall and 20.4 excluding WI...hardly makes a difference imo

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

I don't know about others but I generally take 3 matches as a sign of genuine problem in certain conditions/country unless there was a huge gulf in the teams or the scores were genuinely sh*t for the other bowlers/batters.

Also, depends on number of overs bowled (for bowlers).

 

[ankitj]

Not really. I would still go with Maco because of average boost of era, lack of standout match performances and lack of durability.

Perth 2024 was a standout match performance.

You also gotta take into account the fact that he has player of the series awards in three different major countries - SA, England and Australia (don't know how he avoided getting one in West Indies in 2019). Now, I don't think lack of series awards should be held against any player because they are a rarity. But presence of multiple of them in multiple countries (so not Ashwin/Jadeja) elevates a players career achievements.

 

[Johan]

He avgs 19.8 overall and 20.4 excluding WI...hardly makes a difference imo

Do you have Bumrah higher quality than Curtly