*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[jcas0167]

McKay is also a bit of a head scratcher - averaged 37 this season, and has a career average at 40. Toole on the other hand, had a great season and has a sub 30 average. Is this an anomoly where the selectors have chosen the younger McKay based on age? Or maybe they see something in McKay we don't.

Younghusband is a bit wtf, but less so when you realise Ashok and Lennox will be in Bangladesh at the same time, and I'm guessing they weren't going to ask Sodhi or Patel to 'step down' to A team duties. Being the SC they probably felt they needed 3 spinners. As I said earlier it's a bit of a 'reward' pick for mine, plus other guys on other duties. Guess they didn't want to go back to McConchie either. Relatively seam heavy as they've got 4 seamers and 2 seam bowling all-rounders.

I feel for Toole who was top wicket taker and averaged about 25. I had no idea who McKay was so looked him up. He's apparently 6'5 and looks to bowl at reasonable pace. Nice ball to get rid of Robinson in the second innings of the just completed PS game. Some highlights.

 

[Prince EWS]

I get that this guy Townes has obviously turned up here with an agenda - but he makes a fairish point tbh. Picking 33/34 year olds who we know aren't quite good enough isn't really much worse than picking 33/34 year olds who fall even further short of the required standard but have had fewer chances to prove it. Neither option presents any real likelihood of unearthing a genuinely up-to-standard player so we might as well pick the one more likely to help us win the series at hand.

I'm actually mostly on board with the broad agenda but Latham as a T20 player just takes it to an absurd level IMO.

 

[thierry henry]

I'm actually mostly on board with the broad agenda but Latham as a T20 player just takes it to an absurd level IMO.

But how is it more absurd than picking someone worse than Latham and the same age?

If the argument is that Latham is simply worse at T20 than all the other options then fair enough but I'm really not sure I agree. Particularly if we're expecting low scoring games and/or spin friendly conditions. I'm not sure what we expected in the SA series but the batting conditions (or perhaps simply the second string bowlers being better than the second string batters) created a situation where Latham was handy.

Also FWIW Latham's overall T20 record isn't even that terrible and he scores at a respectable clip. I feel like his very low T20I strike rate is on the cusp of insufficient sample size/related to the role he was asked to play in his sporadic games.

 

[ataraxia]

Younghusband is a good pick. He had a terrible season, but was great the few seasons prior. He's absurdly fit, at 36 probably still the best fielder at domestic level, and being a spinner could keep playing for another decade. Definitely a good bench-warming option imo. Especially when you consider how far down the pecking order we are: Santner/Phillips/Macewell playing T20, Ajaz a long-time test player, Lennox/Ashok/Sodhi in Bangladesh, Gulati and Pringle also picked. The only other domestic regular option is ... Ben Lockrose (don't look at his FC record). Are people suggesting they'd prefer a punt on a Raunaq Kapur / Zac Cumming / Nikith Perera / Elliot Seddon?

I'd actually prefer Ajaz to offer a direct comparison between him and Gulati, but hey Mr. Walter wants to prioritise the younger talent. And three specialist left-arm spinners takes the piss.

 

[thierry henry]

But how is it more absurd than picking someone worse than Latham and the same age?

If the argument is that Latham is simply worse at T20 than all the other options then fair enough but I'm really not sure I agree. Particularly if we're expecting low scoring games and/or spin friendly conditions. I'm not sure what we expected in the SA series but the batting conditions (or perhaps simply the second string bowlers being better than the second string batters) created a situation where Latham was handy.

Also FWIW Latham's overall T20 record isn't even that terrible and he scores at a respectable clip. I feel like his very low T20I strike rate is on the cusp of insufficient sample size/related to the role he was asked to play in his sporadic games.

FTR I am absolutely not invested in wanting Latham to play T20Is lol. I just don't get why anyone would be worried about "oh man, now Nick Kelly misses out on a chance".

 

[Kippax]

The Redditors crave a novel stimulus and can't get any kind of buzz out of watching the same old pro do the same old things.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

McKay is also a bit of a head scratcher - averaged 37 this season, and has a career average at 40. Toole on the other hand, had a great season and has a sub 30 average. Is this an anomoly where the selectors have chosen the younger McKay based on age? Or maybe they see something in McKay we don't.

there's not much point picking guys who are probably doing the bulk of their bowling as first and second change on their domestic new ball records. Henry averaged 40+ until he got the new rock. You might as well pick a big lad who can hit the pitch hard and hope.

 

[Immenso]

That is too many different squads for me to get my head around.

Is Tim Pringle in any of them? (with the Younghusband selection ...)

I really like Younghusband, think he's been a good domestic. But this season he should have been dropped by Wellington by about Feb to give a youngster like Ellliot Seddon a crack. Had an awful year.

 

[Immenso]

OK. I have looked it up. Both Pringle and Younghusband in both NZ A squads. (And Gulati). So 3 spinners.

 

[Townes]

McKay is also a bit of a head scratcher - averaged 37 this season, and has a career average at 40. Toole on the other hand, had a great season and has a sub 30 average. Is this an anomoly where the selectors have chosen the younger McKay based on age? Or maybe they see something in McKay we don't.

Younghusband is a bit wtf, but less so when you realise Ashok and Lennox will be in Bangladesh at the same time, and I'm guessing they weren't going to ask Sodhi or Patel to 'step down' to A team duties. Being the SC they probably felt they needed 3 spinners. As I said earlier it's a bit of a 'reward' pick for mine, plus other guys on other duties. Guess they didn't want to go back to McConchie either. Relatively seam heavy as they've got 4 seamers and 2 seam bowling all-rounders.

It's arguable whether McKay is the most-deserving Otago player to be selected, but it could also be argued that Otago overall have been short-changed after their first-equal performance in the Plunket Shield – in this veritable feast of players going on various tours, I think Chu (who was a no-brainer) is the only other Otago selection (ignoring Phillips).

McConchie's playing in the PSL, isn't he? Otherwise I assume he'd be one of the first picked.

 

[Townes]

Nah. The continued fascination with Nicholls reminds me of the 90s English selection policy with Hick and Ramprakash etc. They also cleaned up at domestic level time and again only to be found out at international level time and again. There is no merit to picking Nicholls in my world.

That's a strange world then. Nicholls averages 39 in test cricket (compared to Hick's 31 and Ramprakesh's 26) and 34 in ODIs (compared to Hick's 37 and Ramprakesh's 27), which is about the same as, for example, Astle, and at a better strike rate.

 

[Kippax]

It's quite an annoyingly skewed record that one for Nicholls though. 7 Test tons and a 59 ave if limited to Hagley and the Basin.

If you could just slot them in and out like they were bowlers, Rachin should probably be NZ's dry conditions No. 4 and Nicholls the spinners-free cricket No. 4.

 

[Neil Young]

That's a strange world then. Nicholls averages 39 in test cricket (compared to Hick's 31 and Ramprakesh's 26) and 34 in ODIs (compared to Hick's 37 and Ramprakesh's 27), which is about the same as, for example, Astle, and at a better strike rate.

Ok.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

That's a strange world then. Nicholls averages 39 in test cricket (compared to Hick's 31 and Ramprakesh's 26) and 34 in ODIs (compared to Hick's 37 and Ramprakesh's 27), which is about the same as, for example, Astle, and at a better strike rate.

astle scoring 156 in australia against the following attack might have something to do with it

 

[Mike5181]

I'm never going to say Astle was perfect but from 98-05 he was valuable to the team in a way Nicholls never really was. Maybe the third best test bat after Fleming and Richardson during that period. Nicholls averages like 25 outside NZ and has cashed in against some truly weak attacks.

 

[jcas0167]

I'm never going to say Astle was perfect but from 98-05 he was valuable to the team in a way Nicholls never really was. Maybe the third best test bat after Fleming and Richardson during that period. Nicholls averages like 25 outside NZ and has cashed in against some truly weak attacks.

Right from 95/96 when he became the starting ODI opener and test number 5 really. He was scoring tons in both formats. The two test tons in the Windies in '96 were very good. I think Nicholls started well with that ton against South Africa and did well in the test series win against Pakistan in 2018. I think at the start of that 2019 tour to Australia he was ranked number 7 in the world which Mark Waugh couldn't believe given how he fared in that series.

 

[DougieRydal]

Cleaver looks to have moved past Hay in the selector's books. 34 yr old - another one who keeps a talented youngster out. I have nothing against Cleaver but this is right out of the Gav Larsen playbook. Reach 30 and you're in with a chance.

 

[Immenso]

Cleaver looks to have moved past Hay in the selector's books. 34 yr old - another one who keeps a talented youngster out. I have nothing against Cleaver but this is right out of the Gav Larsen playbook. Reach 30 and you're in with a chance.

Hay does have holes in his record across different formats. So, I'm not against the 'theory' of him missing out in a white ball series. Although ... I am in the camp of use JAMWHITEBALL for test team pathways. So ... I'm also not offended by Hay playing T20Is with his bad Super Smash record.

But. There are two mid-20s keepers who have strengths covering all 3 formats. Time to use them.

I also don't think newcomers should be gun in all 3 formats from day dot.

The biggest victim of the hobbling of Hay by the NZCPA's capture of the NZ hierachy and selection policy is actually Chu. Who has never even played an NZ 'A' game yet. Which is just extraordinary.

 

[SteveNZ]

The biggest victim of the hobbling of Hay by the NZCPA's capture of the NZ hierachy and selection policy is actually Chu. Who has never even played an NZ 'A' game yet. Which is just extraordinary.

100% agree. Max Chu, I think, will thrive the higher up he goes. But is now caught behind 2x 30+ year olds and Mitch Hay, who has fallen behind the other 2 30 year olds. Crazy stuff. We've had a few years to prepare for life after Blundell (which should have already started in Tests) but they've butchered it.

So we're likely to get Blundell again for the next 12 months

 

[Prince EWS]

Playing Hay in formats he's bad at won't be good for his potential Test development IMO. Chu probably makes more sense than Cleaver though.