• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Top 100 Test Batsmen countdown (revised and updated)

HimeshChaturvedi

School Boy/Girl Captain
I have a problem with the top opposition stuff. Ideally, the kind of bowling attack you face should be given a weight age over your opposition? Like Australia with Siddle, Johnson, Harris, Hauritz isn't the same as McGrath, Gillespie, Warne, Lee.
 

govinda indian fan

International Vice-Captain
I have a problem with the top opposition stuff. Ideally, the kind of bowling attack you face should be given a weight age over your opposition? Like Australia with Siddle, Johnson, Harris, Hauritz isn't the same as McGrath, Gillespie, Warne, Lee.
Top opposition stuff changes with top three teams of that corresponding era
1970s-wi, aus and eng
1980s-wi, pak and eng
1990s-aus, sa and pak
2000s-aus, sa and eng/ind
2010s-ind, aus and sa
2020s-aus, sa and ind/nz
 

HimeshChaturvedi

School Boy/Girl Captain
Top opposition stuff changes with top three teams of that corresponding era
1970s-wi, aus and eng
1980s-wi, pak and eng
1990s-aus, sa and pak
2000s-aus, sa and eng/ind
2010s-ind, aus and sa
2020s-aus, sa and ind/nz
so, performing against Eng in 70s will be counted as the same as against the Windies?
 

HimeshChaturvedi

School Boy/Girl Captain
My dude, the fun is in the countdown. I dont want it all at once. Discussion is fine, but not at the expense of derailing DOGs effort.
Ballan d'or event is much quicker and ends in a single night. Anyway, this discussion is going in a weird direction. All I meant was all the long discussions would have been fine if the list was posted much earlier.
 

Days of Grace

International Captain
@Days of Grace Mentioned before that I think along with SR, the biggest issue with the formula is the how each of the metrics (non-home/peak, top-opposition) are affected by the sample size. It seemed to me that Brook benefited from a small sample size here. There should be some kind of penalty where if a batsman has less than the minimum no of innings for a non-home/top-opposition, there should be a downward adjustment.
There are penalties for small sample sizes. Otherwise a batsman averaging 90 after 5 innings would be in the top 5.

The penalties are as follows:

Overall:

80 innings: 100%
40 innings: 90%
20 innings: 70%
10 innings: 40%
0 innings: 0%

Peak, non-home,
I have a problem with the top opposition stuff. Ideally, the kind of bowling attack you face should be given a weight age over your opposition? Like Australia with Siddle, Johnson, Harris, Hauritz isn't the same as McGrath, Gillespie, Warne, Lee.
All innings are adjusted depending on strength of opposition and match conditions, which are reflected in averages across all criteria.
 

Days of Grace

International Captain
Ballan d'or event is much quicker and ends in a single night. Anyway, this discussion is going in a weird direction. All I meant was all the long discussions would have been fine if the list was posted much earlier.
You seem pretty impatient. Maybe you don't have enough time to read the original post in this thread.

And this is much more important that the Ballon d'****ingOr.
 

Jane Austen

State 12th Man
I made a direct exception for passionate fans and independent writers, I was speaking largely on media and how their opinions are influenced by things that are not really Cricket, and it's not just Cricket, it's true for most facets of life. I don't really diffrentiate between scoring rates, and why I believe some of the older times might be underrated because of more orthodox Cricket is simply a view I hold, and I don't force it on anyone. I'm simply exhausted of people taking a personal offense to me saying I don't promote a Cricketer for general tempo, for range perhaps, but not for general tempo. I've explained my views on why I believe some may like Sutcliffe or Kallis may not be so hyped by the media, nobody is obligated to agree.

Eh, Compton also had a really good batting era for a large chunk of his career, until the 1950 summer or so, If I've time tomorrow, I'll try to go through Charlie Davis's database and calculate his strike rate before the extremely bowling friendly era began from 1950/51 Ashes forward.
Much of the media were extraordinarily patronising about professional cricketers in general----described as being "of loyal yeoman stock" and as"a faithful journeyman cricketer" etc so long as they showed due respect to their betters.And if such as Parkin and Parker expressed a view contrary to the establishment view they were referred to as bolsheviks.
The cricketing grandees were open about their (sometimes extreme) political idealogy in which "the benefit of the moral and manly game of cricket" was of primary importance.This was at the heart of MCC taking such a sycophantic and obsequious attitude to South Africa in the 60s,wanting to keep the cricket family intact---never mind the vast majority of the South African population being disenfranchised! "Politics and sport shouldn't mix" claimed those wanting to continue playing the creators of Apartheid when,ironically,this was exactly what Vorster and co had done.
Which is a long and rambling way ,Johan,of saying that much of the media will have followed MCC assumed codes of morals ,values and opinions but evaluation of batters based on their size-of-gate-marketability was not one of them,viz---I clearly recall that during the fifties and afterwards,whilst Compton was considered the dazzling batting cavalier and an improvising genius,Hutton,the roundhead,the technical master,was considered the greater player;until his great comeback in 1966,Tom Graveney,the beautiful strokeplayer,was dismissed by much of the media as a very pretty adornment but not to be trusted in serious situations, and,perhaps,most prejudicial of all,everyone recognised that Colin Milburn was mega box-office but the selectors and the media didn't think he was sound enough to be a "real" Test batter.The only great English strokemaker recognised as a great batter was an amateur,Ted Dexter.
Of course,no-one should suffer personal abuse in relation to matters as trivial,in real terms,as the evaluation of cricketers!
I disagree with your disregard of strike-rates as a relevant factor in assessing the meritocracy of batters and to its importance in the context of a match but I can't budge you on this and the friendly arguments you put forward have utterly failed to give me any reason to change my stance.Of course that doesn’t mean we should resort to personal abuse!
I've been lucky.Having been on this forum for some six months,with one exception,I've not personally come across anything that could be construed as personally offensive although I've sometimes been the victim of funny banter having a friendly laugh at my expense!----And I know where to find you!!
Occasionally though some of the correspondence between others does seem to get a little personalised and veering on to abuse and,obviously,we should all seek to avoid this.
,
 

OverratedSanity

Request Your Custom Title Now!
There are penalties for small sample sizes. Otherwise a batsman averaging 90 after 5 innings would be in the top 5.

The penalties are as follows:

Overall:

80 innings: 100%
40 innings: 90%
20 innings: 70%
10 innings: 40%
0 innings: 0%
Fair enough. I think this could maybe be tuned more though (especially when it comes to comparing across eras).
 

Days of Grace

International Captain
The top 3 will be posted together tomorrow.

No.4

Len Hutton (England) 862


3895.jpg

2019 edition: rank 9

Career: 1937-1955, 6971 runs (rank 33)

Overall average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate (138 inns): 53.51 (56.67) 47.69 (50.51) 43.71 (38.26) (rank 12)
Peak Average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate (1949-1954; 56 inns): 72.47 59.53 47.22 (rank 6)
Non-Home Average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate (61 inns): 55.85 50.35 44.37 (rank 6)
Top Opposition Average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate (67 inns): 66.79 58.82 46.24 (rank 2)

A fantastic record against the top opposition of his time and an outstanding peak. Len Hutton gets a much deserved place in the top 4, despite having the 86th highest adjusted strike-rate in the top 100.

If he had retired after the 1954 tour to the West Indies, he would have finished in a comfortable second place with 911 points.
 

Jane Austen

State 12th Man
You implied Barrington was playing for himself, or it was a justifiable opinion to have, that's a clear critique of character or at the very least, a question on character.

The real problem was that he was doing these things, regardless of his ability. He was batting 6 when he was very much a good enough player to bat top four, he wasn't shielding the tail when he could've atleast learnt to, and these hurt the team, his intentions do seem selfish but it's the effect that ultimately counts.

Yes, I am an idiot and you are a genius, why even bother conversing with me? Why even be so offended by my refusal to give a single point to higher scoring rates? return to Subs, please.
Johan,
Surely there should be no criticism to Kyear2 to imply that a cricketer may be a selfish player,so long as there is a degree of logic to back that criticism.
Ken Barrington,one of my all-time favourite cricketers,played one or two very slow innings for which he was accused of selfishness.I always took the view in Barrington's case that he was not being selfish and,in one case he was so out of form he couldn’t get the ball off the square and in the others he was batting in the interest of the team,recognising that he didn't have the sheer talent,granted to few,to be able to break free from the shackles---NB Johan,he was UNABLE to reach a more acceptable strike rate because his ability was limited in comparison to a few others.
However it was justifiably open to Kyear2 and others to take a different view.There was no slur.
Conversely I am of the opinion that Geoffrey Boycott and Shivnarine Chanderpaul have batted selfishly on occasions.
In a different manner Graeme Pollock may have been a selfish batter at times and I think Denis Compton was too but,in their case at least the spectators were pleased.
With the exception of Compton I have actually watched specific instances of what I've mentioned above.
I won't bore everyone with some more actual examples.

Always remember that attributing selfishnes to a player can be no more than a subjective view,an opinion,obviously helped by having actually seen the incident or the cricketer at play.

By the way I have never considered Barrington a selfish player--quite the reverse.One could counter-argue that Ken was the consumate team player happy to accept his ugly-duck role amonst the swans....Cowdrey,Graveney,Dexter.....and take the flak for it.
 

Top