Top 100 Test Batsmen countdown (revised and updated)

[kyear2]

What is your argument against him?

I have no argument agaist him as a great, sorry ATG batsman and was arguing for him long before it became popular to.

But top 4 or 5, no, and I have discussed my reasoning multiple times.

But what I was agreeing with was your statement that he isn't quite as highly rated outside of CW as he is has been of late around here.

Hammond has long been rated above him among English batsmen alone. Outside of that, Sobers, Vivian and Sachin were long seen as his superiors as well.
Even among openers Hobbs was seen as clearly above him and his competitor has long been Gavaskar and even at times the other Richards.

 

[kyear2]

New poster here, just my observation from this whole thread -
Among the 90s players only Alec Stewart has an adjusted average higher than his raw average. Among post 2010 players only Joe Root, Travis Head ,Rishabh Pant ,Kamindu Mendis , Yashasvi Jaiswal , Marnus Labuschagne and Babar Azam have adjusted averages higher than their raw averages .

This has been a great thread really enjoyed reading it. Thanks to Days of Grace for putting together such a knowledgeable and insightful analysis.

Welcome.

 

[Coronis]

just a question for doG - why does Sachin have only 39 innings vs best opposition? That number feels quite low .

Surely gotta be a typo, since Headley also had 39 innings against top opposition, I presume it comes from there.

 

[kyear2]

Maybe Len Hutton is the second best batsman ever but what works against him is perception. He doesn’t quite stand out the way others do.

Jack Hobbs : Early 1900s legend and best before Don
Don Bradman : Greatest of all time.
Gary Sobers : Greatest all rounder
Viv Richards : Swagger, intimidation and dominance
Brian Lara : Defined by big knocks. 277, 375 & 400.
Sachin Tendulkar : Longevity, records. Most runs/100s.

Everyone else has a clear narrative or identity.
Despite being statistically elite, Hutton doesn’t have one. I feel Smith will face the same issue in future.

I also think that may end up being the case.

I think these 7 guys stand alone to a certain extent, but in my personal rankings, there's still separation betwen them. In chronological order..

Bradman - GOAT

Hobbs, Sobers, Richards, Tendulkar- BAB

Hutton, Lara, Smith - BAB* (would be in the tier above but for....)

 

[subshakerz]

Maybe Len Hutton is the second best batsman ever but what works against him is perception. He doesn’t quite stand out the way others do.

Jack Hobbs : Early 1900s legend and best before Don
Don Bradman : Greatest of all time.
Gary Sobers : Greatest all rounder
Viv Richards : Swagger, intimidation and dominance
Brian Lara : Defined by big knocks. 277, 375 & 400.
Sachin Tendulkar : Longevity, records. Most runs/100s.

Everyone else has a clear narrative or identity.
Despite being statistically elite, Hutton doesn’t have one. I feel Smith will face the same issue in future.

Hutton got overshadowed by Bradman,

 

[Coronis]

Yes Hutton is very much one of the players I think get overrated a bit here, and is definitely rated higher here than average.

I'm not sure I agree. By "popular choice" do you mean high approval or personal preference? When great openers are discussed, Hobbs, Huttom, Sutcliffe and Gavaskar are the most frequently mentioned. with the first two ranked in the Top 5 in the 2024 batsmen poll.

Speaking of, since its 2026 and you ran polls in 2022 and 2024, I assume you’re planning to run a poll later this year? (presumably after DoG has finished his lists) Will be a nice contrast hto have two updated lists lol

 

[DrWolverine]

Borg : What if he did not retire at a young age.
Laver : Only man to win 2 Calendar Year Grand Slam
Federer : Greatest peak and visually pleasing style
Nadal : King of Clay. 14 Grand Slams.
Novak : Owns pretty much every major record.

Sampras and Hutton are similar in this regard.
Brilliant in their era but don’t really stand out now.
Not a statistical outlier like Don/Laver.
No brilliant highlight reels like Lara/Federer.
No overall numbers like Sachin/Novak.

 

[centurymaker]

We know this is purely statistical, where if you retire on top, you gonna end up higher.
(as opposed to playing till late and more or less still helping your side but harming your individual stats).

 

[DrWolverine]

Hutton got overshadowed by Bradman,

True

Even among openers Hobbs was seen as clearly above him and his competitor has long been Gavaskar and even at times the other Richards.

Even Sunny has a better image perception than Hutton.

First great Indian batsman.
13 100s against WI(some were against lesser bowlers).
Played without a helmet against the fastest & best.
Sobers, Imran, Crowe, Benaud all rated him highly.
96 against Pakistan has reached mythical status now
First batsman to score 10000 runs
Broke Don’s record of 29 Test centuries

 

[capt_Luffy]

Discussion point: If I had ranked Tendulkar 7th in 2013 immediately following his retirement, there may have been an outcry. With the passage of time, have knowledgeable cricket followers accepted that there may be other batsmen worthy of the esteemed status of being second only to Bradman?

I personally don't think SRT is the 2nd best, but will take him ahead of a few names ahead here definitely. But it's a statistical analysis, hence that's a given.

 

[Days of Grace]

just a question for doG - why does Sachin have only 39 innings vs best opposition? That number feels quite low .

Sorry! That’s a typo. I’ll edit it later.

 

[subshakerz]

I also think that may end up being the case.

I think these 7 guys stand alone to a certain extent, but in my personal rankings, there's still separation betwen them. In chronological order..

Bradman - GOAT

Hobbs, Sobers, Richards, Tendulkar- BAB

Hutton, Lara, Smith - BAB* (would be in the tier above but for....)

Would Smith be BAB after his career is over?

 

[DrWolverine]

Would Smith be BAB after his career is over?

Hutton. Sobers. Richards. Lara. Sachin. Smith.
All top contenders for being the best since Don.

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

Timing of someone’s arrival helps a lot. Among batsman, Sutcliffe got the worst by far.

Lillee and Warne probably are the biggest beneficiaries of arriving at the right time. Among batsman, it’s probably Victor Trumper.

 

[subshakerz]

Yes Hutton is very much one of the players I think get overrated a bit here, and is definitely rated higher here than average.

How?

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

Contemporary rating are a plus point. I don’t think it’s beyond that tbh.

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

Discussion point: If I had ranked Tendulkar 7th in 2013 immediately following his retirement, there may have been an outcry. With the passage of time, have knowledgeable cricket followers accepted that there may be other batsmen worthy of the esteemed status of being second only to Bradman?

Curious to know where would Headley end up if he hadn’t returned after WW2? Would he go up due to better sheer numbers or go down due to lesser longevity?

 

[DrWolverine]

Timing of someone’s arrival helps a lot. Among batsman, Sutcliffe got the worst by far.

1924 : Sutcliffe’s debut. Hobbs was already a legend
1928 : Hammond’s 1st year. Scores 900 runs in 5 Tests.
1930 : Bradman establishes himself as the greatest
1935 : Retires
1937 : Len Hutton plays for England for the 1st time

 

[govinda indian fan]

Would Smith be BAB after his career is over?

Let him retire subz. He is already rated ahead of lara, hutton and sobers. If he can keep up for year or two he will defo beat hobbs to be best after Bradman

 

[DrWolverine]

Herbert Sutcliffe would have been rated far higher if he did not play alongside the 3 greatest pre war batsmen.