The 3rd Place Playoff

[Ali TT]

Was Geoff Hurst's famous World Club final goal actually over the line? | Sky Sports | Facebook

I have to confess that I'm still a little dubious about how they managed to do this but even so I did remember this from a few years ago. These days, of course they do have the technology to prove it more conclusively.

Yes, a bit questionable. For a start they didn't play that final on 4G.

One of the great what ifs in sport. If England had lost, a certain Baddiel, Skinner and Broudie would probably be a lot poorer today.

 

[peterhrt]

One of the great what ifs in sport. If England had lost, a certain Baddiel, Skinner and Broudie would probably be a lot poorer today.

The reaction to England's win sixty years ago was strangely subdued, even for the time. Ramsey despised the media: "You need me. I don't need you". And the feeling was mutual. The Times reported: "They are pinching themselves. So, too, are others of us, the sceptics, who from the start thought the feat beyond our reach."

Eamon Dunphy claimed that the best players in the country were mostly Scottish and Irish.

 

[Molehill]

The reaction to England's win sixty years ago was strangely subdued, even for the time. Ramsey despised the media: "You need me. I don't need you". And the feeling was mutual. The Times reported: "They are pinching themselves. So, too, are others of us, the sceptics, who from the start thought the feat beyond our reach."

Eamon Dunphy claimed that the best players in the country were mostly Scottish and Irish.

It's interesting looking at the make up of these teams. How many genuine world class players does a World Cup winning team need? England obviously had Moore and Charlton in '66 (and probably Banks too). But then Spain this year only arguably had Yamal (who didn't exactly have a stellar tournament) and Rodri (who definitely did) in that sphere. The rest are all solid players who compliment each other. The French probably had the most but couldn't gel when it mattered.

The idea that the best players win the tournaments is probably caused by some vintage Brazilian sides, but then even in '82 that didn't work out.

 

[Chin Music]

It's interesting looking at the make up of these teams. How many genuine world class players does a World Cup winning team need? England obviously had Moore and Charlton in '66 (and probably Banks too). But then Spain this year only arguably had Yamal (who didn't exactly have a stellar tournament) and Rodri (who definitely did) in that sphere. The rest are all solid players who compliment each other. The French probably had the most but couldn't gel when it mattered.

The idea that the best players win the tournaments is probably caused by some vintage Brazilian sides, but then even in '82 that didn't work out.

I would argue Cucurella is world class. He was brilliant all tournament for them. Very decisive at the back and making clever forward runs. He isn't flash, especially not by Spanish standards but he does the basics brilliantly. The likes of Pedri could be as well although probably not yet.

 

[Molehill]

I would argue Cucurella is world class. He was brilliant all tournament for them. Very decisive at the back and making clever forward runs. He isn't flash, especially not by Spanish standards but he does the basics brilliantly. The likes of Pedri could be as well although probably not yet.

Is he world class, or did he just have a very good tournament? I remember Trevor Sinclair having an outstanding tournament in 2002, but no one would ever call him world class!!

I'm wondering how many 'world class' left backs there have ever been. Carlos and Maldini spring to mind, maybe Lizarazu too (I'm considering Lahm a right back).

 

[Chin Music]

Is he world class, or did he just have a very good tournament? I remember Trevor Sinclair having an outstanding tournament in 2002, but no one would ever call him world class!!

I'm wondering how many 'world class' left backs there have ever been. Carlos and Maldini spring to mind, maybe Lizarazu too (I'm considering Lahm a right back).

He's also a Euros winner. I never thought he looked that outstanding as a footballer alone, but he is a very good one on one defender and makes intelligent forward supporting runs. Pretty difficult not to acknowledge the success and say that he's probably earnt that accolade.

 

[Molehill]

He's also a Euros winner. I never thought he looked that outstanding as a footballer alone, but he is a very good one on one defender and makes intelligent forward supporting runs. Pretty difficult not to acknowledge the success and say that he's probably earnt that accolade.

True, his trophy haul is suggesting he is. But he was also part of a pretty woeful Chelsea defence. Are we going to call Porro world class too?

 

[Ali TT]

It's interesting looking at the make up of these teams. How many genuine world class players does a World Cup winning team need? England obviously had Moore and Charlton in '66 (and probably Banks too). But then Spain this year only arguably had Yamal (who didn't exactly have a stellar tournament) and Rodri (who definitely did) in that sphere. The rest are all solid players who compliment each other. The French probably had the most but couldn't gel when it mattered.

The idea that the best players win the tournaments is probably caused by some vintage Brazilian sides, but then even in '82 that didn't work out.

I posted somewhere else about comparing this Spanish team to the 2008-12 version and man for man you'd struggle to get more than a couple of the current side in a combined XI. However they've been just as dominant, if not more so. Just a fantastic team or perhaps an indication that other international sides aren't very strong right now?

 

[Chin Music]

True, his trophy haul is suggesting he is. But he was also part of a pretty woeful Chelsea defence. Are we going to call Porro world class too?

Simply put no as there is a difference between 'despite' and 'because'. Sure, Chelsea were rubbish last season but that's because they managed to lose Maresca and replace him with utter garbage. Porro is an ok attacking defender from what I can see but is nothing like as good defensively. Cucurella is a far better all round player for a full back. I am not saying I am any sort of expert in assessing full backs but I did use to play there so I guess I recognise traits a bit having done so.

 

[Chin Music]

I posted somewhere else about comparing this Spanish team to the 2008-12 version and man for man you'd struggle to get more than a couple of the current side in a combined XI. However they've been just as dominant, if not more so. Just a fantastic team or perhaps an indication that other international sides aren't very strong right now?

The absolute schooling by Rodri, Ruiz and Olmo of the French midfield two of Rabiot and Tchoumeni did a heck of a lot to disrupt the French front four. The most crucial performance of the world cup by a long way.

 

[Molehill]

I posted somewhere else about comparing this Spanish team to the 2008-12 version and man for man you'd struggle to get more than a couple of the current side in a combined XI. However they've been just as dominant, if not more so. Just a fantastic team or perhaps an indication that other international sides aren't very strong right now?

Yeah, the fact it's a 50/50 toss up whether the player of this tournament gets in that side sums it up. But this is a very well organised team that is surely significantly greater than the sum of its parts. Much credit to the manager and the Spanish systems really.

 

[peterhrt]

I'm wondering how many 'world class' left backs there have ever been. Carlos and Maldini spring to mind, maybe Lizarazu too (I'm considering Lahm a right back).

At the time of the 1966 World Cup, Ray Wilson was probably regarded as world-class, as were Facchetti and Marzolini. The Brazilian Nilton Santos had recently retired.

Ruud Krol was pretty good there before switching to sweeper.

A couple of Arsenal men were quite highly rated in their day: Eddie Hapgood and Ashley Cole.

 

[Uppercut]

Cubarsi and Laporte are better than Puyol or Pique ever were tbh. That's partly because the game moved on and centre backs can't get away with being as wooden as Puyol any more. But if we're going to play the "how many would get in that side" game I'm taking Laporte and Cubarsi and it's not particularly close.

 

[Silver Silva]

It's interesting looking at the make up of these teams. How many genuine world class players does a World Cup winning team need? England obviously had Moore and Charlton in '66 (and probably Banks too). But then Spain this year only arguably had Yamal (who didn't exactly have a stellar tournament) and Rodri (who definitely did) in that sphere. The rest are all solid players who compliment each other. The French probably had the most but couldn't gel when it mattered.

The idea that the best players win the tournaments is probably caused by some vintage Brazilian sides, but then even in '82 that didn't work out.

What about the manager?

No team has ever won the World Cup with a foreign manager.

 

[Molehill]

Cubarsi and Laporte are better than Puyol or Pique ever were tbh. That's partly because the game moved on and centre backs can't get away with being as wooden as Puyol any more. But if we're going to play the "how many would get in that side" game I'm taking Laporte and Cubarsi and it's not particularly close.

Cubarsi may well become an absolute star, but you'll not convince me that Laporte is a better player than a couple of centre backs with multiple Champions League successes.

 

[Uppercut]

Cubarsi may well become an absolute star, but you'll not convince me that Laporte is a better player than a couple of centre backs with multiple Champions League successes.

That's always the problem with comparing current players to past players though, past players have the medals on the table.

I don't hold a strong opinion on whether he's better than Pique was, that just comes down to how much you want to control for defenders getting faster and more agile in general. But Puyol was a bit of a donkey, and it's strange to see him recast as an elite CB, because during his career everyone knew he wasn't at that level. It's true that Barcelona could be a tough gig given the way they played (though this was much less true before Guardiola took over, and Puyol still didn't look great behind the Van Bommel/Edmilson foul machine midfield). But their defences in that era weren't particularly strong, and there were fairly regular moments when Puyol didn't even look like a footballer. He should have been sent off in that 2010 World Cup final and Howard Webb bottled it harder than anyone has ever bottled anything.

 

[Chin Music]

I'm largely in agreement re Puyol. I think he was more of a 'leader' rather than an outstanding CB. Cubarsi has plenty of similar traits to Pique although is quicker over the ground I would suggest.

 

[Tom Flint]

evra was wc

 

[Pothas]

Pedri is a brilliant player and couldn't even get in the side come the end of the tournament.

I know all the team and structure things are valid but they also just have plenty of really good footballers.