*Official* 2025–26 New Zealand white-ball tour of India

[thierry henry]

nah Latham's era-adjusted record is almost certainly extremely middling

yeah but all of the competition is sort of the same so he at least deserves to be mentioned with all the other duds

 

[SteveNZ]

Cairns or Oram.

Steve just put Vettori there which I think is probably a spot too high even with Hadlee at 8.

Yeah you’re right it is, and wasn’t particularly a gifted death hitter. I’m not picking Player X no matter what his numbers. Oram wasn’t bad, I could even go Styris at 7

 

[jcas0167]

Most surprising thing here is the first ever series was as late as 1988/89.

I remember the 95/96 series fondly. First time i ever saw live televised cricket from Asia. Probably the first time ever in NZ, i'd guess.

Martin Crowe's last series.

Same. Astle and Cairns got their maiden ODI centuries, Crowe got his last international century in a big partnership with Fleming (who I think would have had a better batting record if Crowe had played another couple of seasons). Was a super convenient time slot to watch after school.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yeah you’re right it is, and wasn’t particularly a gifted death hitter. I’m not picking Player X no matter what his numbers. Oram wasn’t bad, I could even go Styris at 7

I can't remember exactly when it was, probably about 2010, but there was a game where Vettori came in to bat at number 6 for some reason and helped to rescue NZ's innings and win the game. Afterwards when they interviewed him and he said "I guess I'm a number six now" and god damn he sounded so tired.

I think Vettori at 6 makes more sense than 7 in a way, but also doesn't fit the balance of the side at all anyway.

 

[jcas0167]

Ian Smith and Luke Ronchi are choices too. Both could smash it if required.
Though by the time he's done, think Hay would have surpassed them all if he lives up to his talent.

Yeah, Ian Smith had a strike rate of 99.43 which is outstanding for the era he played in.

 

[Mike5181]

McCullum and Cairns really aren't ATG standard in ODIs. McCullm was genuinely pretty awful until his latter years where he just smashed it as an opener. Guptill failed in 90% of high pressure situations across both white-ball formats. Ravindra is an obvious one that'll slot in there eventually but it's too soon and he needs to score more outside Asia. Phillips I'd like to pick but he hasn't been successful with the ball at all in ODIs and isn't at the level of the Mitchell, Taylor types in batting. Honestly Chris Harris might be above Cairns but he has SR issues. You could pick Conway but you need like 2.5k+ runs for an ATG side, he just hasn't played enough.

1. Martin Guptill/Nathan Astle
2. Martin Crowe
3. Kane Williamson
4. Ross Taylor
5. Daryl Mitchell
6. Chris Cairns
7. Brendon McCullum+
8. Sir Richard Hadlee
9. Daniel Vettori
10. Trent Boult
11. Shane Bond

 

[NZTailender]

Guptill's horrible record in WC games against decent opposition means he's not clearly better than Astle IMO, particularly given he played in an era where first choice new ball attacks usually weren't selected for JAMODIs and just showed up for World Cups. I definitely focus a lot more on World Cup performances in the modern era than I do in previous ones for this reason, particularly for top order batsmen.

Counterpoint: at least he cashed in against weak opposition in World Cups while Astle barely averaged 20 with a century vs Zimbabwe flattering that (tbf that was a good Zimbabwe side).

But yeah, fully agree. Astle and Guptill are remarkably similar players in some ways - though Guptill never got an extended run in the middle order of Tests when he probably should have instead of being made to open.

An NZ WC XI top order almost writes itself if we include Germon's low number of games and ignore Turner's East Africa pummeling inflating his average somwhat:

DJ Mitchell	2023-2023	10	9	1	552	134	69	497	111.06
R Ravindra	2023-2023	10	10	1	578	123*	64.22	543	106.44
LK Germon	1996-1996	6	6	3	191	89	63.66	225	84.88
KS Williamson	2011-2023	27	26	7	1167	148	61.42	1437	81.21
GM Turner	1975-1983	14	14	4	612	171*	61.2	956	64.01
MD Crowe	1983-1992	21	21	5	880	100*	55	1053	83.57
SB Styris	2003-2011	26	22	5	909	141	53.47	1026	88.59

Ravindra and Turner open, middle order of Williamson, Crowe, Mitchell, Styris, Germon.
Styris/Ravindra/Mitchell for 10 overs, throw in Hadlee, Vettori, Bond and Boult and you're done.

 

[Skyliner]

"Yes, we that saying in NZ as well"


"That's it, now stick your tongue out and widen your eyes"

 

[Prince EWS]

Counterpoint: at least he cashed in against weak opposition in World Cups while Astle barely averaged 20 with a century vs Zimbabwe flattering that (tbf that was a good Zimbabwe side).

But yeah, fully agree. Astle and Guptill are remarkably similar players in some ways - though Guptill never got an extended run in the middle order of Tests when he probably should have instead of being made to open.

An NZ WC XI top order almost writes itself if we include Germon's low number of games and ignore Turner's East Africa pummeling inflating his average somwhat:

DJ Mitchell	2023-2023	10	9	1	552	134	69	497	111.06
R Ravindra	2023-2023	10	10	1	578	123*	64.22	543	106.44
LK Germon	1996-1996	6	6	3	191	89	63.66	225	84.88
KS Williamson	2011-2023	27	26	7	1167	148	61.42	1437	81.21
GM Turner	1975-1983	14	14	4	612	171*	61.2	956	64.01
MD Crowe	1983-1992	21	21	5	880	100*	55	1053	83.57
SB Styris	2003-2011	26	22	5	909	141	53.47	1026	88.59

Ravindra and Turner open, middle order of Williamson, Crowe, Mitchell, Styris, Germon.
Styris/Ravindra/Mitchell for 10 overs, throw in Hadlee, Vettori, Bond and Boult and you're done.

Yeah Guptill and Astle were both gun JAMODI players who failed in World Cups, but the difference for me is that JAMODIs were more meaningful and usually much closer to full strength in Astle's time than Guptill's.

 

[Flem274*]

I'd open with Turner and Crowe. We can split hairs over Turner vs modern players but the big picture is he is one of the best batsmen this country has produced in general so unless Conway or similar cements that spot, my suspicion is Turner would be a level above Astle and Guptill.

 

[capt_Luffy]

So a top 6 of:
Guptill
Mccullum
Williamson
Taylor
Crowe
Mitchell?

Astle over Guptill potentially for a strong 6th option. Or

McCullum
Crowe
Williamson
Taylor
Mitchell

Then you can fit 2 ARs

 

[Flem274*]

Bit of sleeping on McCullum in here. For a while he was a genuinely solid #7 and world class gloveman in his era and very good at finding singles and boundaries. Definitely happy to commit heresy and include him as a strike feeder to the other end who can also bosh on call and catch the ****ing ball.

 

[Flem274*]

Turner
Crowe
Williamson
Taylor
Mitchell
Cairns
McCullum
Hadlee
Vettori
Bond
Boult

Seconds is very competitive now tbh. When I first contaminated this site it was also the case but for sad reasons.

 

[Prince EWS]

Crowe and Williamson both went through periods where they were pretty regular bowling options in ODIs. Feels a bit cheaty to think of Kane as a viable sixth option given he was well, cheating, but Crowe is possibly passable as a sixth option. I think I'm going with Astle over Guptill with his bowling as the tiebreaker though.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Crowe and Williamson both went through periods where they were pretty regular bowling options in ODIs. Feels a bit cheaty to think of Kane as a viable sixth option given he was well, cheating, but Crowe is possibly passable as a sixth option. I think I'm going with Astle over Guptill with his bowling as the tiebreaker though.

I think, even with his minnow bashing, Turner is above that duo as a batsman. The question really now is, whether Astle's bowling is enough needed to make the jump or Mitchell is enough as a 6th option. Ofc the other option to just open with Crowe and pick Philips.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

What does Santner need to do take Vettori's spot?

Vettori the better bowler (not a huge gap), but Santner better at batting, fielding, and captaincy.

 

[vandem]

Back to Indian tour chat - Bracewell didn't bowl - cricinfo "The on-air comms are just informing that Michael Bracewell is unlikely to take the field due to a calf issue".

One to watch over next two-three weeks.

 

[Townes]

What does Santner need to do take Vettori's spot?

Vettori the better bowler (not a huge gap), but Santner better at batting, fielding, and captaincy.

I'm not sure Santner is a better bat than mid/late-career Vettori; there certainly wouldn't be much in it.

If this were a test team (which, I know, it's not), I'd have John Bracewell ahead of both of them. Better overall record, better record against Oz, more attacking bowler, and accomplished slipper.

 

[Howsie]

If Phillips bats 5 as he should, I think Latham should stop being a 1st team player (although I'd possibly prefer uncapped Max Chu over Mitch Hay).

Seifert imo.

NZ doesn’t need Latham. With a top order of Conway, Rachin, Williamson and Mitchell we don’t need someone at 5 to save the innings or pull us out of trouble, I mean how often does that happen? Especially when said player is next to useless trying to hit out. Push Phillips up to 5 where he should always be playing and role with Seifert, Bracewell and Santner as your 6/7/8

 

[ataraxia]

Elevating Hay to ODI reserve keeper deserved a fair bit of ridicule, given his run-shy white-ball record. Seifert, Fletcher, and Chu still should be ahead IMO (and Latham).