Is Viv Richards an Overrated Test Batsman?

[Adders]

Click on something about Viv Richards hoping to discuss the Master Blaster, but just see posts about the Zimbabwean team of the late 90s.

Just another CW thread that goes off a tangent I guess.

Needs an injection of some random Kiwi player imo

 

[kyear2]

Viv is Great, but clearly shan't be celebrated for not maximizing his output for Aura bullshit

You.mean trying to win test matches and not just just inflating averages for the spread sheet brigade to preen over decades later?

 

[capt_Luffy]

You.mean trying to win test matches and not just just inflating averages for the spread sheet brigade to preen over decades later?

No, I mean for not maximizing runs he could score for AURA

 

[mr_mister]

No, I mean for not maximizing runs he could score for AURA

Yeah, its not like Viv was knocking out 150s and not turning them into 200s, where you could argue diminishing returns start to begin. Downhill skiing runs, got enough on the board already to bowl the other team out twice etc

Viv would get a quick 60, throw away his wicket at 5/220 with the job nowhere done, but fanboys froth that he demolished the confidence of the bowling attack because he did it mainly in boundaries, without a helmet, while chewing gum and strutting between wickets

 

[Burgey]

No, I mean for not maximizing runs he could score for AURA

I find it pretty hard to believe anyone would think Viv Richards of all people wasn’t proud enough in his performances or competitive enough.

I mean, if he tried to grind out runs it probably wouldn’t have worked for him, any more than trying to strike at 80 would have worked for someone like Chanderpaul. The tempo at which those guys scored runs was the right tempo for them to maximise their output, else they would have batted differently

 

[Burgey]

I also don’t see how a bloke scoring that quickly and averaging 50 in the era he played in is over rated tbh.

To my way of thinking if you average 50 in test cricket across a hundred tests, you’re more than likely a great player. You can’t tell me he’s out of place in an AT WI batting line up with the likes of Headley, Sobers and/ or Lara. If you’re in that company, you can ****ing well play

 

[Burgey]

Needs an injection of some random Kiwi player imo

Don’t worry, we’ll have plenty of that over the upcoming Aus summer before they fade into obscurity.

 

[Burgey]

Oh, you meant past Kiwi players. My mistake.

 

[shortpitched713]

There's scoring quick runs, which any Zak, Ben, or Ollie can do. Then there's consistently making knocks which have outsized impact on match results. The latter is Viv's domain, and I think a lot of people who are on the anti high SR train are missing this distinction when evaluating Viv.

Look at scorecards, match situations, understand that the West Indies lineup, while good was generally relying on him as a lynchpin. And recognize how many match-winning knocks he has, and it's hard to just say "nah he was just a high SR merchant, who got by on vibes".

I don't think he's a great BBB candidate, personally, but he's certainly a higher quality than his average.

 

[Slifer]

Yeah, its not like Viv was knocking out 150s and not turning them into 200s, where you could argue diminishing returns start to begin. Downhill skiing runs, got enough on the board already to bowl the other team out twice etc

Viv would get a quick 60, throw away his wicket at 5/220 with the job nowhere done, but fanboys froth that he demolished the confidence of the bowling attack because he did it mainly in boundaries, without a helmet, while chewing gum and strutting between wickets

Viv is overrated yes but if you think he just scored a quick 60 after the WI were 200/5 you need to think again. See the Pakistan series 1980, the Australia series 1980, the 180 odd chase vs india in 83 , the last two tests of the 75/76 where Viv opened because Greenidge was too scared (and he made runs) vs Lillee, Tommo and co. Etc.

Viv is the most overrated batsman of all time but respectfully, those of us who are fans do not care.

 

[TheJediBrah]

any more than trying to strike at 80 would have worked for someone like Chanderpaul

Didn't mind a cheeky 60-ball hundred in 2003 tbf

 

[AndrewB]

Viv is overrated yes but if you think he just scored a quick 60 after the WI were 200/5 you need to think again. See the Pakistan series 1980, the Australia series 1980, the 180 odd chase vs india in 83 , the last two tests of the 75/76 where Viv opened because Greenidge was too scared (and he made runs) vs Lillee, Tommo and co. Etc.

What's interesting about the last of those is that his record in his 11 Tests to that point was moderate - batting average of 30, mostly thanks to a 192* in his second Test. After scoring a hundred and two fifties as a stand-in opener, he didn't look back: in his next 33 Tests (including those two) across 5 years his average was 73 (plus 14 WSC Supertests with an average of 55).

 

[DrWolverine]

Viv Richards
First 40 Tests : Avg of 60.48
Next 40 Tests : Avg of 45.43
Last 41 Tests : Avg of 43.84

Brian Lara
First 43 Tests : Avg of 55.48
Next 43 Tests : Avg of 45.33
Last 44 Tests : Avg of 58.92

Gary Sobers
First 31 Tests : Avg of 61.8
Next 31 Tests : Avg of 62.95
Last 31 Tests : Avg of 49.06

Steve Smith
First 41 Tests : Avg of 60.18
Next 41 Tests : Avg of 59.57
Next 43 Tests : Avg of 48.21

Len Hutton
First 26 Tests : Avg of 55.72
Next 26 Tests : Avg of 60.76
Last 27 Tests : Avg of 53.22

Sachin Tendulkar
First 50 Tests : 49.82
Next 50 Tests: 57.60
Next 50 Tests : 52.73
Next 50 Tests : 53.86

 

[shortpitched713]

Viv Richards
First 40 Tests : Avg of 60.48
Next 40 Tests : Avg of 45.43
Last 41 Tests : Avg of 43.84

Brian Lara
First 43 Tests : Avg of 55.48
Next 43 Tests : Avg of 45.33
Last 44 Tests : Avg of 58.92

Gary Sobers
First 31 Tests : Avg of 61.8
Next 31 Tests : Avg of 62.95
Last 31 Tests : Avg of 49.06

Steve Smith
First 41 Tests : Avg of 60.18
Next 41 Tests : Avg of 59.57
Next 43 Tests : Avg of 48.21

Len Hutton
First 26 Tests : Avg of 55.72
Next 26 Tests : Avg of 60.76
Last 27 Tests : Avg of 53.22

Sachin Tendulkar
First 50 Tests : 49.82
Next 50 Tests: 57.60
Next 50 Tests : 52.73
Next 50 Tests : 53.86

Now do the GOAT, Matthew Hayden.

 

[DrWolverine]

Now do the GOAT, Matthew Hayden.

Very lazy so adjust with this
First 49 Tests : Avg of 58.55 & 17 centuries
Next 54 Tests : Avg of 44.57 & 13 centuries

Bonus : Lasbuschagne
First 32 Tests : Avg of 59 & 10 centuries
Next 33 Tests : Avg of 29 & 1 century

 

[ankitj]

Now do the GOAT, Matthew Hayden.

One day you will get over Matthew Hayden. I hope.

 

[honestbharani]

One day you will get over Matthew Hayden. I hope.

He is just playing the long con game coz he has the hots for his daughter.

 

[ankitj]

Hayden was really very good for only 5 years from 2001 to 2005.

 

[shortpitched713]

Hayden was really very good for only 5 years from 2001 to 2005.

View attachment 55483

This is the only period that matters.

Therefore obviously Hayden > Tendulkar .

 

[Johan]

Hayden was really very good for only 5 years from 2001 to 2005.

View attachment 55483

His prime was up by the second half of 2004. 2005 involved two back-to-back poor overseas series before bashing a West Indies fielding a horrid, horrid attack (with the Kookabura anyway).