Imran vs Donald - Better bowler away from home?

[DrWolverine]

That was best in the world at that time.

That is not a strong batting lineup

Imran's 12 for was epic as it proved sc bowlers can bowl quick

Not denying it.

 

[Slifer]

With player of the series awards for Imran in each of WI, Australia, England and India, this really should not be a question. There are not more than a handful (maybe 5) pacers with a better away record that Imran Khan.

Let's see:

WI: MM, Holding, Garner, Ambrose, Walsh

Australia: McGrath, Lindwall , Lillee

Pak: Wasim

NZ: Hadlee

India: Bumrah

RSA: Steyn, Donald

Bold = for sure
Normal font = possibly

 

[capt_Luffy]

With player of the series awards for Imran in each of WI, Australia, England and India, this really should not be a question. There are not more than a handful (maybe 5) pacers with a better away record that Imran Khan.

India was completely for batting tho

 

[govinda indian fan]

Imran.has atg series in every country except nz while donald was mid expect india&england

 

[govinda indian fan]

Let's see:

WI: MM, Holding, Garner, Ambrose, Walsh

Australia: McGrath, Lindwall , Lillee

Pak: Wasim

NZ: Hadlee

India: Bumrah

RSA: Steyn, Donald

Bold = for sure
Normal font = possibly

Stats don't show everything. If you go by data from 76 to 89 imran would be in top 3

 

[govinda indian fan]

That is not a strong batting lineup





Not denying it.

That was best in world at that time. Go and search articles of that time

 

[subshakerz]

Allan Donald took 9 wickets against a lineup of Matthew Elliot, Mark Taylor, Greg Blewett, Mark Waugh, Steve Waugh, Ricky Ponting and Ian Healy.

It is not really his fault that his batting lineup got out for less than 200 in the first innings that lead to a draw.

Nobody it saying it wasnt a class performance but it’s not the same level of impact. Donald by then sort of gained the impression of performing when it was too late.

 

[DrWolverine]

Shane Warne took 8 wickets in 4th Ashes test and 10 wickets in the 2nd Test. Not really his fault that the team lost both the matches.

 

[Slifer]

Stats don't show everything. If you go by data from 76 to 89 imran would be in top 3

If you have to chop and change to make a player look better that should say enough. We deal in totality of careers here. For example, I would love to ignore Gary Sobers' early years when he was a bowler and then WI when couldnt figure out where the hell to have him bat. But I cant.

 

[subshakerz]

Shane Warne took 8 wickets in 4th Ashes test and 10 wickets in the 2nd Test. Not really his fault that the team lost both the matches.

Not to be picky, but the reason England won those games is because of their large first innings scores and Warne only really was a force in the 2nd innings. Hence why they needed fit McGrath.

 

[subshakerz]

If you have to chop and change to make a player look better that should say enough. We deal in totality of careers here. For example, I would love to ignore Gary Sobers' early years when he was a bowler and then WI when couldnt figure out where the hell to have him bat. But I cant.

No, smarter analysis doesnt need to deal in absolutes. There is no reason Imran needs to be penalized for being good enough to stay as a specialist bat for a couple more years when he was finished as a bowler. No fast bowler should realistically be expected to be assessed on their performance as an 18 year old debutant or a 39 year old bat.

 

[subshakerz]

Donald was consistently outshined by his colleagues in key series games overseas, with the exception of England.

93 SL - Brett Shultz won the test
93 Australia - Donald bowled well but Fannie won that game
97 Pak - Pollock won the game
2000 India - Pollock and Boje provided the decisive spells
WI 2001 - Pretty much a group effort by pacers.

 

[Slifer]

No, smarter analysis doesnt need to deal in absolutes. There is no reason Imran needs to be penalized for being good enough to stay as a specialist bat for a couple more years when he was finished as a bowler.

If that's what you need to make him look better be my guest. There were one or two matches he bowled zero overs thats fine. For me, if he bowled more than a handful, then those matches count all the same.

 

[subshakerz]

If that's what you need to make him look better be my guest. There were one or two matches he bowled zero overs thats fine. For me, if he bowled more than a handful, then those matches count all the same.

I understand. The context I am looking at is whether he is actually playing in the side as a bowler. If he isn’t and it’s just extra role, then I am a bit charitable in looking at those latter years.

I do similar with Ponting late career decline when I realise he chose to extend his career knowing Australia didn’t have batting resources to replace him. Hence to me I won’t downgrade as much for that decline.

 

[ankitj]

India was completely for batting tho

No one asked you to fact check

 

[capt_Luffy]

I understand. The context I am looking at is whether he is actually playing in the side as a bowler. If he isn’t and it’s just extra role, then I am a bit charitable in looking at those latter years.

I do similar with Ponting late career decline when I realise he chose to extend his career knowing Australia didn’t have batting resources to replace him. Hence to me I won’t downgrade as much for that decline.

Different contexts by quite imo. Imran's role turned more batting centric, where he turned into one of the best and most dependable batsmen in the team, can argue Jadeja is going through a similar transition now. He was still contributing something worthy of a specialist, and hence his bowling being secondary during that frame matters in allrounder discussions mayhaps in overall discussions, but not really much for bowler discussions for me. Ponting played for his team no cap, but still his role was to contribute with the bat solely and his record faltered very noticeably.

 

[subshakerz]

Different contexts by quite imo. Imran's role turned more batting centric, where he turned into one of the best and most dependable batsmen in the team, can argue Jadeja is going through a similar transition now. He was still contributing something worthy of a specialist, and hence his bowling being secondary during that frame matters in allrounder discussions mayhaps in overall discussions, but not really much for bowler discussions for me. Ponting played for his team no cap, but still his role was to contribute with the bat solely and his record faltered very noticeably.

I get it. it was more of an example how raw stats Dont tell the full story.

 

[Majestic]

Donald was consistently outshined by his colleagues in key series games overseas, with the exception of England.

93 SL - Brett Shultz won the test
93 Australia - Donald bowled well but Fannie won that game
97 Pak - Pollock won the game
2000 India - Pollock and Boje provided the decisive spells
WI 2001 - Pretty much a group effort by pacers.

That’s just rubbish way of analysing the impact of a bowler.

 

[kyear2]

Imran also averaged 24 vs aus before 89 where he played as specialist batsmen

Not in a position to check right now, but pretty sure when I last checked this his average only maginally went up due to that last series. Pretty sure it wasn't 24 before.

Will check though.

 

[kyear2]

Let's see:

WI: MM, Holding, Garner, Ambrose, Walsh

Australia: McGrath, Lindwall , Lillee

Pak: Wasim

NZ: Hadlee

India: Bumrah

RSA: Steyn, Donald

Bold = for sure
Normal font = possibly

Exactly.