England players and selection discussion thread

[ImpatientLime]

I don't think Jennings managed to somehow wrangle a gig as England wicketkeeping coach; Foakes is saying that England don't have a wicketkeeping coach and wouldn't bring one in when he requested one.

Jennings was in the squad as the spare batsman so ended up doing Foakes's training exercises with him because there wasn't anyone else around/willing to help out.

to me this reads at best, simplifying the set up and at its worst, not wanting people who can challenge the managements ideas.

but also, if you're gonna take a talented young bat who keeps a bit and make him your gloveman, you sure as hell want a strong keeping coach in there to help his development. with foakes i can kind of get it, he's where he needs to be already re his skill set. but smith is learning on the job.

 

[Hungry Llama]

If Smith is learning on the job, hes learning all wrong, looking at his perfs on the recent winter tours.

 

[kevinw]

All the ex players going in on Key and McCullum. You could call it sour grapes but it's more than that.

 

[Chin Music]

All the ex players going in on Key and McCullum. You could call it sour grapes but it's more than that.

I see Livingstone and Foakes having a grumble in recent exchanges but who has spilled the beans apart from them?

Edit: Bairstow, but of these only really Foakes can have a gripe that he wasn't unfairly dropped. PS, this is not me backing Key/McCullum btw.

 

[Stefan9]

Topley has also criticised Baz and key. Called Livingstone's words kind.

 

[Third_Man]

Think you can add David Willey to those who has criticised the management over lack of proper communication. It will soon be a question of who hasn't.

Can anyone remember why Key was appointed in the first instance, what were his qualifications and experience? Other than being a cricketer and then a commentator.

 

[Chin Music]

Think you can add David Willey to those who has criticised the management over lack of proper communication. It will soon be a question of who hasn't.

Can anyone remember why Key was appointed in the first instance, what were his qualifications and experience? Other than being a cricketer and then a commentator.

With Willey though, he was excluded after the last 50 over world cup (wrongly though) which was before McCullum took charge of the white ball team. That certainly doesn't detract from the Key criticism of course, nor of the mismanagement of the test team in the last year, which is where the ire should be concentrated. If his all round management skills are not up to it, why has he got a free pass from the winter?

 

[ImpatientLime]

I see Livingstone and Foakes having a grumble in recent exchanges but who has spilled the beans apart from them?

Edit: Bairstow, but of these only really Foakes can have a gripe that he wasn't unfairly dropped. PS, this is not me backing Key/McCullum btw.

foakes gripe seemed to be more around the setup rather than his dropping. not sure he has much of a leg to stand on re selection. he's clearly a very good player but might also be the single most overrated english player in my lifetime. a very good keeper and a really average batsman.

 

[Chin Music]

foakes gripe seemed to be more around the setup rather than his dropping. not sure he has much of a leg to stand on re selection. he's clearly a very good player but might also be the single most overrated english player in my lifetime. a very good keeper and a really average batsman.

I would go back to the perennial Read v Jones debates of circa 20 years ago for that! Read a good but overrated keeper and woefully inadequate bat for test match level. Jones, a shoddy keeper and overrated bat.

Edit: Anyways, I think my point was is that regardless of the criticism that Key and McCullum have received, it is not like that many of the players who have had a moan are ones that can claim that they have been particularly badly treated, with the exception of David Willey. I think a few of them have been badly selected, Lawrence as a test opener v Sri Lanka and Jamie Overton for the last test last summer were real WFT moments. Then you have the Bashir situation where a guy was persisted with despite not seeming to kick on. Then you had Crawley and Pope continually selected despite not scoring runs. Maybe Sam Cook can be said to have not had a fair go but at the same time his stamina and dropping to circa 75mph and even Zim batsmen smacking him was a bit of an issue.

 

[Third_Man]

but isn't the point that in such a high level job, you not only have to select the right players, back your hunches whatever but you also need to have managerial competence and experience to deal with those who you've tried but have not quite made it and you need to cast aside. Did Key have any track record of ever being in a managerial role? 6 years as a Sky pundit on retirement as a cricketer qualilfied him for a junior job in a ECB media team not Managing Director of the England Men's Cricket team.

 

[kevinw]

The Lawrence selection seemed like a way to protect Crawley. Very unlikely that Lawrence was going to succeed in that position and they never had to select a genuine opener.

 

[social]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2039176732612198403

 

[Prince EWS]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2039176732612198403

April fool.

 

[Chin Music]

but isn't the point that in such a high level job, you not only have to select the right players, back your hunches whatever but you also need to have managerial competence and experience to deal with those who you've tried but have not quite made it and you need to cast aside. Did Key have any track record of ever being in a managerial role? 6 years as a Sky pundit on retirement as a cricketer qualilfied him for a junior job in a ECB media team not Managing Director of the England Men's Cricket team.

It's a fair call, that the handling of the selections and omissions is what very much amiss with what he and McCullum have done rather than what seemed to be suggestions that there were a whole load of players who were unlucky to be dropped. Personally I thought both should have gone after the dreadful planning and delivering of the last series. What I don't think is that there is necessarily a magic bullet of players on the fringes of the England side who would magically improve the team.

 

[Molehill]

I know he's clearly playing on a road at The Oval this week, but there's seemingly no stopping Jamie Smith scoring runs. Should he be considered as a specialist batsman (issue being there's no obvious spot now from 3-6)? No doubt he'll be picked again at 7 and asked to keep despite not having kept since The Ashes.

 

[Chin Music]

I know he's clearly playing on a road at The Oval this week, but there's seemingly no stopping Jamie Smith scoring runs. Should he be considered as a specialist batsman (issue being there's no obvious spot now from 3-6)? No doubt he'll be picked again at 7 and asked to keep despite not having kept since The Ashes.

Well your post seemed to do the trick in terms of stopping him scoring runs! I think it may need a few more innings before judging him myself.

 

[Molehill]

Well your post seemed to do the trick in terms of stopping him scoring runs! I think it may need a few more innings before judging him myself.

Yeah, I'm slightly concerned that he's too good for County Cricket, but gets exposed at the top level. But if he were to iron out those technical deficiencies....

Meanwhile, Pope is scoring runs whilst Bethell sits on a Bangalore bench. It's not a good look and should question whether he is selected for the First Test. Crawley is at least making it easy to drop him. I wonder if he'll ever play another International Match?

 

[Chin Music]

Yeah, I'm slightly concerned that he's too good for County Cricket, but gets exposed at the top level. But if he were to iron out those technical deficiencies....

Meanwhile, Pope is scoring runs whilst Bethell sits on a Bangalore bench. It's not a good look and should question whether he is selected for the First Test. Crawley is at least making it easy to drop him. I wonder if he'll ever play another International Match?

Yeah, an utter waste of time for Bethell. He should be back playing for Warks. However, your point about Smith is exactly the same for Pope. Rather easy not having your defence technique exposed against blokes who don't provide the same challenge as what he will face at test level, especially on the obvious road they played on the other day.

 

[Molehill]

They are at least playing cricket though. Bethell seemingly cannot get past either Salt or David into the RCB starting XI. It should be noted that he's sharing the bench with Jordan Cox too, another who might've been pushing for some form of England selection.

I think it's getting to the stage where unless you only want to be considered for white ball selection, you shouldn't be playing IPL. It's not like they cannot make loads from ECB contracts and The Hundred anyway.

 

[kevinw]

Yeah, I'm slightly concerned that he's too good for County Cricket, but gets exposed at the top level. But if he were to iron out those technical deficiencies....

Meanwhile, Pope is scoring runs whilst Bethell sits on a Bangalore bench. It's not a good look and should question whether he is selected for the First Test. Crawley is at least making it easy to drop him. I wonder if he'll ever play another International Match?

Agree, Bethell shouldn't be in the test side if he's sitting on an IPL bench. Pick the guy who's scored FC runs instead (Rew not Pope).