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Does cricket need a strong Pakistan?

LangleyburyCCPlayer

LangleyburyCCPlayer

International Regular
andruid said:
ICC needs a separate criteria for Test cricket and full membership.
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Full member status has been decoupled from Test status for a few years now, although I believe the route to either is not exactly straightforward, or else teams like the Netherlands would surely have got it by now
 
Chin Music

Chin Music

International Regular
LangleyburyCCPlayer said:
For all the incompetency of the PCB, I don’t think having so many years of having to play in the UAE helped them one bit neither
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Yes, an absolute fair shout too. They did play some good cricket while they were there but seem to have stopped producing the types of bowlers who would make them competitive again.
 
Chin Music

Chin Music

International Regular
LangleyburyCCPlayer said:
You wonder how much money they were making then too
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No idea although they have quite a big diaspora in UAE and they never made huge money from test match audiences at home. I recall many series being rather empty prior to then and would guess a big amount of income is through TV coverage. I even recall when England played in Pakistan in late 2005 and they gave them free entry which was essentially to allow them to watch Afridi bat/slog and when he got out the ground emptied.

A Pakistani origin friend of mine went to the Karachi match v England in 2022 and said it was basically empty there for that match.
 
Burgey

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There was only a strong Pakistan for a few years in the late 80s and early 90s. For the rest of the time they've been largely mediocre on the occasions when they're actually having a go.

So, no. Cricket has got along just fine without a strong Pakistan for the vast majority of the time it's been played.
 
James

James

Cricket Web Owner
Burgey said:
In all seriousness, they've basically had more than a generation of fans who have been unable to see their team play at home, which is bloody sad.
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Totally agree, that is very sad and likely explains a lot about the quality of the players coming through the system.

Are the Pakistani people still as crazy about their cricket as they were in the past I wonder ?
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Burgey said:
In all seriousness, they've basically had more than a generation of fans who have been unable to see their team play at home, which is bloody sad.
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James said:
Totally agree, that is very sad and likely explains a lot about the quality of the players coming through the system.

Are the Pakistani people still as crazy about their cricket as they were in the past I wonder ?
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I get this line of thinking but I think their failures have more to do with the levels of corruption and selfishness that is there in their cricket administration than anything else.
 
subshakerz

subshakerz

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Ali TT said:
It's pretty much ten years to the day that Pakistan were #1 in the test rankings.

I guess the question is whether this is a fallow period that will be reversed or a more terminal issue like that faced by the West Indies. However, despite their woes in international cricket, West Indian players have always had a route out that is not currently open to any Pakistani player, namely the IPL. With Indian franchises buying up sides in other leagues it is going to be harder for Pakistani players to make the big bucks on the global T20. This further isolates Pakistani cricket, which will be damaging to their performance in all formats
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Pakistan has been in slow decline since the early 2000s once Wasim, Waqar and Anwar retired in 2003. We have had moments under Inzi and Misbah when the situation improved mostly due to securing home base but the last decade has seen the decline accelerate.

The main issue is we have actively sabotaged our talent. Since Younis Khan debuted in 2000, not a single Pakistani has had a great career in batting and bowling. Every talent, from Umar Akmal To Asif to Amir to Shaheen to Babar, has seen their career either short circuit or talent go to waste, primarily because of no system support but also critically lack of senior mentorship.

Now we have seem to have run out of both talent and the system incentives are geared away from test cricket which has little interest in the country. Hence why I think it’s best for Pakistan cricket to take a break.
 
LangleyburyCCPlayer

LangleyburyCCPlayer

International Regular
James said:
The way Pakistan are trending, it wouldn't surprise me if Nepal knock them over in a WC game sometime soon.

Pakistan have so many fantastic all time great players. Their fans deserve better.
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Nepal lost to South Africa by 1 run and to England by 4 runs, it’s a matter of time before they pull off a big win at a World Cup
 
subshakerz

subshakerz

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James said:
Totally agree, that is very sad and likely explains a lot about the quality of the players coming through the system.

Are the Pakistani people still as crazy about their cricket as they were in the past I wonder ?
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They are but I think the interest is declining given recent results. I feel bad for the younger gen who have access to more media and analysts yet with a team that isn’t worth it
 
A

Ali TT

Cricketer Of The Year
subshakerz said:
Pakistan has been in slow decline since the early 2000s once Wasim, Waqar and Anwar retired in 2003. We have had moments under Inzi and Misbah when the situation improved mostly due to securing home base but the last decade has seen the decline accelerate.

The main issue is we have actively sabotaged our talent. Since Younis Khan debuted in 2000, not a single Pakistani has had a great career in batting and bowling. Every talent, from Umar Akmal To Asif to Amir to Shaheen to Babar, has seen their career either short circuit or talent go to waste, primarily because of no system support but also critically lack of senior mentorship.

Now we have seem to have run out of both talent and the system incentives are geared away from test cricket which has little interest in the country. Hence why I think it’s best for Pakistan cricket to take a break.
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I don't think I'd fully agree with your first sentence. Pakistan reached #1 in the test rankings in 2017 and won the ICC CT that year. Really since the Ws got old it was a bumpy ride until about 2020 then pretty rapid decline since. I do agree about your assessment on players though - Younus definitely that last great (unless you include Misbah with his captaincy credentials).

A characteristic of Pakistan's success has been somehow getting alignment between one or two superstars, a few high very good players (the Azhars, Asads etc) and then whichever flash-in-the-pan guys are peaking at that particular moment. Still feel like Pakistan are producing plenty of that middle category but none of the first and, at present, none of the latter either.
 
subshakerz

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Ali TT said:
I don't think I'd fully agree with your first sentence. Pakistan reached #1 in the test rankings in 2017 and won the ICC CT that year. Really since the Ws got old it was a bumpy ride until about 2020 then pretty rapid decline since. I do agree about your assessment on players though - Younus definitely that last great (unless you include Misbah with his captaincy credentials).

A characteristic of Pakistan's success has been somehow getting alignment between one or two superstars, a few high very good players (the Azhars, Asads etc) and then whichever flash-in-the-pan guys are peaking at that particular moment. Still feel like Pakistan are producing plenty of that middle category but none of the first and, at present, none of the latter either.
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When I mean slow decline, I mean that Pakistan essentially since the mid 80s under Imran and then the decade after him with Wasim Waqar was a top tier side, but then effectively for last 20 plus years Pakistan has been a mid tier side, with only brief flirtations at top tier status under Inzi and Misbah.

Under Inzi, Pakistan managed to draw against India away in 2005 when folks were certain we would lose, and then beat a strong England side at home in 2005, India again and SL away. We had the makings of a worldclass team with Inzi, Yousuf and Younis in batting and Shoaib and Asif as pacers but then both pacers ended up being out of the side for different reasons and we fell behind.

Yes, Pakistan reached no.1 in the test rankings briefly in 2016 but if I am being honest that wasnt that high quality a side to deserve it, it was more about Misbah making great use of resources to secure the UAE as a home base. I recall Ganguly mentioning the same thing. The same team was promptly after reaching no.1 beaten five tests in a row in Aus and NZ and returned to mid tier status.

And now Pakistan are a bottom tier side.

Winning the T20 WC in 2009 and the Champions Trophy in 2017 were flashes in the pan that can happen over a long period, akin to WI winning the Champions Trophy in 2004. India by comparison have any won a single ICC trophy the last decade but appeared in finals and knockouts far more often.

But yes what Pakistan lack are genuinely worldclass players with long enough careers as you said to be the foundation of the team. In particular, worldclass pacers.
 
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subshakerz

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