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Do you think we will have a new 'major cricket country' anytime soon?

Johan

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
There aren't any West Indians currently playing in South Africa (mainly because they can make more money elsewhere), but there have been in the past. Malcolm Marshall and Desmond Haynes being the most prominent.
Yeah, IIRC WI players also used to play in English FC, they don't anymore, just like they don't play in South Africa, Australia or India. I don't see how England is being singled out.
 
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Johan

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Being born in a British colony to British parents and educated in England makes you British in my opinion
Being born in South Africa, living majority of his life there and running the Cricketing structure in the country makes you South African. Let's also not forget South Africa made sure for nearly five decades that they won't have to play any nation of colour, while both England and Australia did it multiple times. There's no version of reality where ICC's early misconducts aren't put on all three founding members of it.
 

Johan

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
According to Google. Abe Bailey was a big supporter of British Imperialism, and had British citizenship, so all roads lead back to England really
Sir Abe Bailey was a South African businessman, politician, sportsman and soldier. He was a pioneer in the goldrush era in the Transvaal in the 1880s, and he was active in all spheres of South African life until his death in 1940. His influence was widespread, and can still be felt today through the Abe Bailey Trust, and through the Bailey bequest hanging in the Iziko National Gallery. This course will give an informative and engaging narrative of his life, which covers his origins as an immigrant’s son in Cradock, to his rise as a millionaire in Johannesburg. It will also cover his dubious legacy as an imperialist, in the days when South Africa was in the clutches of the British Empire, and how his ideology shaped the country of his birth.

Sir Abraham Bailey, 1st Baronet KCMG JP (6 November 1864 – 10 August 1940), known as Abe Bailey, was a South African diamond and gold tycoon, politician, financier and cricketer.


like any politician or person of power, he kept contacts and widened his sphere of influence.
 

peterhrt

State Vice-Captain
The ICC was set up in 1909 at South Africa’s request. They wanted regular international matches in return for granting mining rights to British companies. Australia was opposed.

Only tours to and from England made money. Despite three more teams joining the ICC in 1926, between 1909 and 1945 only six tours took place that did not involve England.

The Americans had decided long before to play their own sports rather than imported British ones. The only country to have an application to join ICC refused was Ceylon.
 

Jane Austen

State 12th Man
It had nothing to do with cricketing talent otherwise West Indians would not have been invited to play rebel cricket tours.
That was a ruthless regime that did not want races mixing unless they controlled the narrative of why whites should play non-whites.

SA never had the power to influence England , its the other way around.
I don't entirely agree with you KV.
When SA toured England 97 years ago KS Duleepsinhji,who would have been an automatic top five batting pick,was not selected after the first Test,deferring to the then de facto Apartheid operating in SA.
England touring sides to SA were "strongly instructed" not to comment on the Apartheid system or any aspect of SA politics.
Jim Laker later described an incident in which he was indirectly involved on the 56/57 tour to SA.He and Alan Oakman were being driven around a rural area.At a cross road their car collided with a cyclist and a dog and Laker considered that the accident was the fault of their driver.The only injuries were to the cyclist and the dog,both of whom were injured quite badly.The police were called as was a vet.Someone asked about calling help for the cyclist.The police attitude was "why bother".He was black.
That MCC wished to appease and give succour to South African cricket was partly class-cultural but was also because prominent MCC grandees had commercial interests in SA enterprises.
And little in cricket has ever matched the sycophancy of MCC to SA cricket in the sixties.Lord Douglas Home, former Prime Minister.and Lord Cobham had been in clandestine talks with South African politicians and cricket administrators to ascertain if Basil D'Oliviera would be an acceptable selection.They were warned off choosing him.And we all know what happened next!

I consider that England cricket administration,which was then primarily MCC,were happy to go along with SA requirements,influenced by commerce and class until,thankfully,the counter-culture of the sixties and the intrinsic fairness of what had previously been the silent majority succesfully reacted against that evil regime.
Hedonistic pleasures-----watching Pollock and Richards play Test cricket-----HAVE TO be given up for the greater good!
 

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
How many West Indian players play in Shield and South Africa's domestic competition, or India's for that matter?

also, blaming England for the IPL is an interesting concept tbh.
Nah it's a fair point actually. England started T20 cricket around 2002-03, if they hadn't done that maybe it wouldn't have become main stream and we'd still be living in the golden years like the 90s/00s.

I'm accepting of putting the blame on both India and England, percentage of culpability between the 2 can be discussed
 

Johan

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I'm accepting of putting the blame on both India and England, percentage of culpability between the 2 can be discussed
You know, the first ever international limited over game happened in Australia after the MCG game was washed off by rain, and half a decade later Packer put limited overs Cricket on the extreme popularity path too. So let's bundle Australia in too in their promotion of the limited overs plague.
 

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
You know, the first ever international limited over game happened in Australia after the MCG game was washed off by rain, and half a decade later Packer put limited overs Cricket on the extreme popularity path too. So let's bundle Australia in too in their promotion of the limited overs plague.
Nah 50 over cricket was great during the golden years, if anything thay deserves credit. It was the T20 that took a good thing too far
 

Johan

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Nah 50 over cricket was great during the golden years, if anything thay deserves credit. It was the T20 that took a good thing too far
All limited-overs Cricket is a plague, and the 50-overs was what gave way to 20.
 

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
All limited-overs Cricket is a plague, and the 50-overs was what gave way to 20.
Disagree, ODI cricket of the 90s and early 00s was great cricket. You can't blame T20 and franchises on that. By the same logic you could extrapolate that Test cricket led to 50 over cricket and it becomes England's fault again for starting it all
 

Johan

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Disagree, ODI cricket of the 90s and early 00s was great cricket. You can't blame T20 and franchises on that. By the same logic you could extrapolate that Test cricket led to 50 over cricket and it becomes England's fault again for starting it all
You are not on the side of good if you think any Limited overs Cricket was ever acceptable tbh, it's giving me "AOTC was a great film" vibes. Though yes, you cannot blame the creator for something eventually turning out to be a negative because of how it's used by everyone, I agree.
 

ataraxia

Hall of Fame Member
Disagree, ODI cricket of the 90s and early 00s was great cricket. You can't blame T20 and franchises on that. By the same logic you could extrapolate that Test cricket led to 50 over cricket and it becomes England's fault again for starting it all
However you slice it, England are ultimately the culprits. County cricket was first in FC, List A, and T20.
 

Johan

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
My thoughts about the tied 2019 WC final exactly
We should do a pfp bet for the Eng vs NZ series, but yes, LO Cricket is the sporting equivalent of cocaine, I thought it was an accepted stance accross this site, apparently not.
 

ataraxia

Hall of Fame Member
We should do a pfp bet for the Eng vs NZ series, but yes, LO Cricket is the sporting equivalent of cocaine, I thought it was an accepted stance accross this site, apparently not.
Okay, I bet NZ are going to lose.
 

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