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Best Bowlers to Debut post 2000

Coronis

Coronis

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
capt_Luffy said:
Pink ball Test is endemic, and all 3 Aussie pacers average between 15-19. It's pretty obvious it's significantly tougher on the long run.
And even if I rate the pink ball games equivalent to red, he still ain't close to *** or Haze at Home, at all (21, 22 vs 25.5). He is overall good at home, not Great. Neither he is so overall away. Again, great longevity and all, rate highly for that if you will. I don't think it's enough.
Click to expand...
Thought I’d see if this made any difference. From when Cummins played his first home test..

At home

Cummins 177 @ 19.92
Starc 177 @ 23.66
Hazlewood 101 @ 21.02

before that (2011-2017)

at home

Starc 80 @ 29.33
Hazlewood 69 @ 25.37

note: Hazlewood played almost the same amount of matches at home in this timeframe, despite being first selected three years later

Wonder how Cummins stats would’ve looked if he was playing then. iirc Starc had a fair few early career injuries.
 
M

Majestic

State Vice-Captain
capt_Luffy said:
Pink ball Test is endemic, and all 3 Aussie pacers average between 15-19. It's pretty obvious it's significantly tougher on the long run.
And even if I rate the pink ball games equivalent to red, he still ain't close to *** or Haze at Home, at all (21, 22 vs 25.5). He is overall good at home, not Great. Neither he is so overall away. Again, great longevity and all, rate highly for that if you will. I don't think it's enough.
Click to expand...
I do rate Hazelwood higher but by not much. Reckon his away numbers would have hurt more if he played more games in Asia like Starc did.
My point was whether he qualifies among top 10 pacers from 2000 debut and he is probably 7 or 8 for me now.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Majestic said:
I do rate Hazelwood higher but by not much. Reckon his away numbers would have hurt more if he played more games in Asia like Starc did.
My point was whether he qualifies among top 10 pacers from 2000 debut and he is probably 7 or 8 for me now.
Click to expand...
Haze's away no.s would have hurt more but I don't think nearly to those catastrophic degree. And his Home numbers are way too superior. A Solid tier gap for me, probs a little more.

From 2000:

  1. Steyn
  2. Bumrah
  3. Cummins
  4. Rabada
  5. Anderson
  6. Hazlewood
  7. Philander
  8. Broad
  9. Wagner
  10. Asif
  11. Shami
  12. Boult
  13. Johnson
  14. Starc
  15. Harris
  16. Morkel
  17. Southee
  18. Jansen
  19. Bond
  20. Zaheer

So yeahhhh, I got your point but he is quite a way from it for me. The highest I can put him is 12th above Boult and Johnson, and lowest below Southee. So yeah.
 
M

Majestic

State Vice-Captain
Johan said:
Guys definitely clear of him

Steyn
Bumrah
Anderson
Cummins
Rabada
Broad
Philander
Hazlewood
Click to expand...
I will probably put Philander below Starc. Just 220 test wickets and South African pitches are as seamer friendly as pink ball tests are for Australia.
 
M

Majestic

State Vice-Captain
capt_Luffy said:
Haze's away no.s would have hurt more but I don't think nearly to those catastrophic degree. And his Home numbers are way too superior. A Solid tier gap for me, probs a little more.

From 2000:

  1. Steyn
  2. Bumrah
  3. Cummins
  4. Rabada
  5. Anderson
  6. Hazlewood
  7. Philander
  8. Broad
  9. Wagner
  10. Asif
  11. Shami
  12. Boult
  13. Johnson
  14. Starc
  15. Harris
  16. Morkel
  17. Southee
  18. Jansen
  19. Bond
  20. Zaheer

So yeahhhh, I got your point but he is quite a way from it for me. The highest I can put him is 12th above Boult and Johnson, and lowest below Southee. So yeah.
Click to expand...
You can put him below Zaheer also. Just need to give him a higher number.
 
Johan

Johan

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Majestic said:
I will probably put Philander below Starc. Just 220 test wickets and South African pitches are as seamer friendly as pink ball tests are for Australia.
Click to expand...
Philander is a cheat code on any deck with seam movement, be it in Australia/England/NZ. Starc is more equipped to bowl on decks that are very flat but I'll still take Philander as an overall performer.
 
M

Majestic

State Vice-Captain
capt_Luffy said:
You can put him above Steyn if you feel validated bro. More wickets afterall, the no 0 on your list
Click to expand...
From your list, he has more wickets, longer career and better average than below names:-

Boult
Johnson
Shami
Wagner

In terms of career length, it is same as Broad(15 years) but his average is better than him too. And Australian red ball games don’t assist seamers as much as Eng, NZ, SA red ball games.
 
B

Bolo.

International Captain
Coronis said:
Thought I’d see if this made any difference. From when Cummins played his first home test..

At home

Cummins 177 @ 19.92
Starc 177 @ 23.66
Hazlewood 101 @ 21.02

before that (2011-2017)

at home

Starc 80 @ 29.33
Hazlewood 69 @ 25.37

note: Hazlewood played almost the same amount of matches at home in this timeframe, despite being first selected three years later

Wonder how Cummins stats would’ve looked if he was playing then. iirc Starc had a fair few early career injuries.
Click to expand...
Was 2017 the last year of drop in pitches?
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Majestic said:
From your list, he has more wickets, longer career and better average than below names:-

Boult
Johnson
Shami
Wagner

In terms of career length, it is same as Broad(15 years) but his average is better than him too. And Australian red ball games don’t assist seamers as much as Eng, NZ, SA red ball games.
Click to expand...
Again, you can take his wickets and average as face value. I don't. And Australian Red ball games post 2018 definitely helps bowlers significantly more than England lol..... More than NZ as well. All 4 are better or equivalent away and better at Home. Again, if you really value Longevity, sure. But man, you kinda are obsessed with Starc:

Mitchell Starc vs Mitchell Johnson in Tests

Better test bowler?
www.cricketweb.net

Starc vs Johnson vs Hazelwood in Tests as bowler

Who is better test bowler?
www.cricketweb.net

Starc vs Johnson? The better Mitchell?

Starc - 350+ wickets, Avg 27.5 and going Johnson - 310+ wickets, Avg 28
www.cricketweb.net

3 threads comparing him with just Johnson.....
 
A

Agonizingly Awkward

U19 Cricketer
capt_Luffy said:
Haze's away no.s would have hurt more but I don't think nearly to those catastrophic degree. And his Home numbers are way too superior. A Solid tier gap for me, probs a little more.

From 2000:

  1. Steyn
  2. Bumrah
  3. Cummins
  4. Rabada
  5. Anderson
  6. Hazlewood
  7. Philander
  8. Broad
  9. Wagner
  10. Asif
  11. Shami
  12. Boult
  13. Johnson
  14. Starc
  15. Harris
  16. Morkel
  17. Southee
  18. Jansen
  19. Bond
  20. Zaheer

So yeahhhh, I got your point but he is quite a way from it for me. The highest I can put him is 12th above Boult and Johnson, and lowest below Southee. So yeah.
Click to expand...
Zaheer is a better bowler than Shami
 
M

Majestic

State Vice-Captain
Among fast bowlers with 200+ wickets debuting post 2000, let’s look at top 10 bowlers sorted with strike rate-

Rabada 39
Steyn 42
Bumrah 42.5
Cummins 45.5
Starc 46

Shami 50
Philander 51
Johnson 51
Roach 52
Hazelwood 52
Wagner 52.5
 
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