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Did New Zealand Choke?
- Thread starter smash84
- Start date
OverratedSanity
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AndyZaltzHair
Hall of Fame Member
CHOKE is now the official drinks of cricketwebdotnetforum
BeeGee
International Captain
I much prefer classic choke to this new choke.
Agent Nationaux
International Coach
It was an overrated NZ batting side.
wellAlbidarned
International Coach
Think Anderson might've had a few tense moments with the nachos at dinner
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
We needed one out of Guptill, Williamson & Taylor to go big (120+) and one of the three blasters (McC, Corey & Ronchi) to fire. Elliott played very well. If we'd finished the powerplay at 175/3 it was game on.
Would we have won with Watling opening and keeping, McCullum at 6 and Anderson at 7? Who knows? If Ryder was sober and behaving? If Williamson played as well as he can?
Well done Australia - that intensity of performance (if not behaviour) was magnificent. Well done NZ, we are all proud of you. Now let's win the test series in England and knock over Aus at the end of the year.
morgieb
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Hint: Neither of the three sides ****ing choked. CW needs to lay off their obession.
I thought "choking" was where a team is heading / cruising for a win, or are heavy favourites, but find a way to lose. Example, SA in QF 2011, 2-100 chasing only 221, crumble to 172 all out.
NZ were underdogs. At NZ's high point they were 3-150 after 35 overs, heading for 240 - 280, this would only have been a par score.
NZ were underdogs. At NZ's high point they were 3-150 after 35 overs, heading for 240 - 280, this would only have been a par score.
jcas0167
International Debutant
I think it was more a case of superb bowling and fielding building pressure on the batsmen. In hindsight maybe given the occasion and playing their first game in Australia they would have chosen to bowl first and get into the game that way. The frustrating thing was that as well as Starc bowled, Guptill and Williamson were actually surviving, then got out to fairly soft dismissals. Anderson got a good ball and might have been unfortunate with the shadow across the pitch? Ronchi has had a disapointing tournament given his form in the lead up.
No.
There was nothing in the game to suggest the players wilted. They got outplayed. That was as good a bowling performance as I've ever seen in such a huge game and they did exceptional well to take it to 150-3. When NZ's time came to field, they were super sharp. Boult hit good areas, and Southee replicated the form he had shown outside of the massive performance against England. They looked up for the contest. If there was a window to bring the game back, they would've found it. I'm still somewhat shocked at how ruthless and high quality a game the Aussies were able to bring to such a high-pressure occasion.
There was nothing in the game to suggest the players wilted. They got outplayed. That was as good a bowling performance as I've ever seen in such a huge game and they did exceptional well to take it to 150-3. When NZ's time came to field, they were super sharp. Boult hit good areas, and Southee replicated the form he had shown outside of the massive performance against England. They looked up for the contest. If there was a window to bring the game back, they would've found it. I'm still somewhat shocked at how ruthless and high quality a game the Aussies were able to bring to such a high-pressure occasion.
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James
Cricket Web Owner
I don't think it was a choke at all.
It's the hardest task in world cricket to go to Australia and beat the Aussies in their own backyard. I compare it to teams coming to New Zealand and playing the All Blacks. More often than not, the opposition go home with their tails between their legs.
Given the fact the pitch conditions were completely different to what NZ had experienced during the tournament, it was just a bridge too far for them. Overall, I think all NZ fans should be over the moon of how they team played throughout the World Cup and the way they conducted themselves as a group. You can't take anyway way from Australia as well. Mitchell Starc especially was just superb.
I'm encouraged by the fact that the Chappell-Hadlee series is back on the table, and hopefully we'll see some great ODI and hopefully Test cricket between the two countries moving forward.
It's the hardest task in world cricket to go to Australia and beat the Aussies in their own backyard. I compare it to teams coming to New Zealand and playing the All Blacks. More often than not, the opposition go home with their tails between their legs.
Given the fact the pitch conditions were completely different to what NZ had experienced during the tournament, it was just a bridge too far for them. Overall, I think all NZ fans should be over the moon of how they team played throughout the World Cup and the way they conducted themselves as a group. You can't take anyway way from Australia as well. Mitchell Starc especially was just superb.
I'm encouraged by the fact that the Chappell-Hadlee series is back on the table, and hopefully we'll see some great ODI and hopefully Test cricket between the two countries moving forward.
I don't think New Zealand handled the big stage well at all. In particular, McCullum tried to hit out before he even hit the ball once with his bat. He had threee air-swings and then he was out. I understand he battled in the manner that got NZ to the Final, but I thought he should have at least made contact once or twice before trying that!
The middle order collapse was pretty terrible too. I don't think those deliveries were anything special. Faulkner's first wicket was nearly a wide. Admittedly it was an awesome slower ball, but it was a terrible shot.
I think South Africa would have handled the big stage better, mainly because they have the best player in the world.
But to say it was a choke when you clearly weren't remotely the best side on the side...? That's a bit harsh. If NZ played their best, they still would have lost convincingly. Even if they had Kevin Skinner punching people left and right, they still would have lost.
EDIT: Wow! I've been a member here at CW for nearly a decade now and I only have a little over 1,000 posts. Talk about being economical and saying only what needs to be said!
The middle order collapse was pretty terrible too. I don't think those deliveries were anything special. Faulkner's first wicket was nearly a wide. Admittedly it was an awesome slower ball, but it was a terrible shot.
I think South Africa would have handled the big stage better, mainly because they have the best player in the world.
But to say it was a choke when you clearly weren't remotely the best side on the side...? That's a bit harsh. If NZ played their best, they still would have lost convincingly. Even if they had Kevin Skinner punching people left and right, they still would have lost.
EDIT: Wow! I've been a member here at CW for nearly a decade now and I only have a little over 1,000 posts. Talk about being economical and saying only what needs to be said!
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wellAlbidarned
International Coach
That's what McCullum has done this entire tournament come out. His entire strategy revolved around the first couple of balls being looseners, enabling him to put the bowler under the pump straight away. It came off last time we played against Australia, why would he get to the final then decide to change it?
I think you have to show a little more respect to Mitchell Stark than that. The chances of that coming off again were very slim indeed.
Take South Africa, my favourite team to watch in this tournament, New Zealand rattled them early. But Faf du Plessis anchored a great comeback. South Africa's run-rate was about 4 an over or a little above that when he got out. But he knew he couldn't do anything more than that against an on-fire Kiwi swing attack. Having got South Africa out of that situation, he got them into a situation where they probably would have scored about 330, before the rain ruined that aspiration.
I said it all week before the game, McCullum will go out in the first over. You can't play that style of cricket all the time and get away with it.
I mean, at the very least, shouldn't he have tried to make contact with the ball before tried to slog out? He has three air-swings, never got close to the ball, and threw away his wicket.
Anyway, I've said enough about McCullum.
Take South Africa, my favourite team to watch in this tournament, New Zealand rattled them early. But Faf du Plessis anchored a great comeback. South Africa's run-rate was about 4 an over or a little above that when he got out. But he knew he couldn't do anything more than that against an on-fire Kiwi swing attack. Having got South Africa out of that situation, he got them into a situation where they probably would have scored about 330, before the rain ruined that aspiration.
I said it all week before the game, McCullum will go out in the first over. You can't play that style of cricket all the time and get away with it.
I mean, at the very least, shouldn't he have tried to make contact with the ball before tried to slog out? He has three air-swings, never got close to the ball, and threw away his wicket.
Anyway, I've said enough about McCullum.
wellAlbidarned
International Coach
McCullum is just as likely to get out to Starc defending as attacking tbh. and he managed to smack him last time they came head to head, so he backed himself to do it again.
Victor Ian
International Coach
NZ didn't choke. There were no chokes in this WC. Australia seem to be lucky in World cup finals. Too often, the other team, that has been on fire through a tournament, plays an unfortunately below par game when it counts most (Thinking Pakistan, India, Sri Lanka and now New Zealand). Perhaps a best of three final might be nice.
Now.... How difficult did those shadows make things? I noticed New Zealand's fightback was derailed with that ugly shadow running right through the middle of the pitch. I was thinking that if such a shadow could be predicted, which it could, then they could have ideally stalled the drinks break to coincide and let that shadow pass. Does anyone have experience with batting through shadows?
Now.... How difficult did those shadows make things? I noticed New Zealand's fightback was derailed with that ugly shadow running right through the middle of the pitch. I was thinking that if such a shadow could be predicted, which it could, then they could have ideally stalled the drinks break to coincide and let that shadow pass. Does anyone have experience with batting through shadows?