Did South Africa choke?

[OverratedSanity]

I do find it really strange how the C word has become so damn taboo in a way, though. So in a sense, I agree with Shri a bit. There is this feeling that people get annoyed really quickly when the C word is used when it shouldn't. It annoys me too, but even when it's used legitimately people (from all countries) get really, really sensitive. The word touches a nerve somehow.

Anyway, I wasn't trying to be condescending. Just being honest that the thread would just get annoying quickly... because I don't think anyone who watched the game could honestly call it a choke.

 

[weldone]

Had NZ beaten Australia or India or any other side in a similar match, would people even bring the choke argument? No. The entire choke debate is taking place only because it is SA. And precisely that answers the question. It was not a choke.

 

[gvenkat]

Had NZ beaten Australia or India or any other side in a similar match, would people even bring the choke argument? No. The entire choke debate is taking place only because it is SA. And precisely that answers the question. It was not a choke.

That's the whole point. India and Australia have won many clutch games before and them failing a one-off game cannot be considered a choke. SA have repeatedly failed at crunch moments.

I'm still conflicted as to thinking if they choked and that's why I wanted to get some thoughts. What do you call some one who does not grab crucial moments not once, not twice, but three times in a game?

 

[anil1405]

No he wasn't.

There is no evidence to convince me that he wasn't home. I wouldn't buy into that.

NZ missed their chances too at crucial stages so doesn't that count?

Plus South Africa were so good in the field that they saved 20 odd runs in a small ground which ensured the game went till the end. People are least bothered to consider that.

 

[gvenkat]

One error at an important moment is ok but that dropped catch of Elliott, the runout missed by AB, keeper failing to hit the stumps twice when Vettori and Elliott sneaked a bye 2 times etc are valid criticisms now that we have all calmed down. Again, "I" am not saying it was a choke but I wouldn't be so quick to shut people up who might think that way.

The emotions took over everyone and they saw people crying on the field and don't want to twist the knife with the C word. But in reality that is what happened here.

 

[ankitj]

Not calling it a choke myself.

Saw the highlights again, drop on last ball of 42nd over was so important at the end. Imagine going into the last over needing 14 in an over without Elliot.

 

[Teja.]

Jesus christ

 

[cpr]

One error at an important moment is ok but that dropped catch of Elliott, the runout missed by AB, keeper failing to hit the stumps twice when Vettori and Elliott sneaked a bye 2 times etc are valid criticisms now that we have all calmed down. Again, "I" am not saying it was a choke but I wouldn't be so quick to shut people up who might think that way.

In light of the contest, NZ missing two early catches, Williamson not catching AB, Williamson not running out AB (though it does look like he might've been back by the slightest of margins) - as most said a high pressure game these things happen and even themselves out (both between teams and the times the team creates a breakthrough out of nothing).

TBH even asking the choke question is poor when weighing up the game as a whole, and is a bit of an insult to SA and her fans. Its the kind of headline screaming attitude taken by FOX News/Daily Mail types to create 'debate' (contraversy) when half a brain cell can tell it isn't there.

 

[Shri]

In light of the contest, NZ missing two early catches, Williamson not catching AB, Williamson not running out AB (though it does look like he might've been back by the slightest of margins) - as most said a high pressure game these things happen and even themselves out (both between teams and the times the team creates a breakthrough out of nothing).

TBH even asking the choke question is poor when weighing up the game as a whole, and is a bit of an insult to SA and her fans. Its the kind of headline screaming attitude taken by FOX News/Daily Mail types to create 'debate' (contraversy) when half a brain cell can tell it isn't there.

The sad truth is no matter what we believe, the tag won't leave them until they play the perfect game in a high pressure WC KO. Its would be an insult to them every ****ing time no doubt but people are still going to keep asking the question till they win a WC. They might be wrong but they will also be the majority.

 

[cpr]

I suppose, especially given the arsenal of attacking batsmen they currently have, they will always be seen as under performing if they don't win. However its not giving credit for a fantastic batting performance by NZ really - again detractors don't see the oppositions strengths.

However on here I dare say we are intelligent and impartial enough to look past the label and give credit where its due.

 

[Niall]

Could be wrong here, but did Kane not have Faf plum when they were scoring very slowly, but decided not to review it? They made their fair share of mistakes as well, heck imagine the abuse Ross Taylor would have got if Steyn had delivered in that final over.

I am adamant they have choked horribly/hilariously before especially in 2011, but today its a little harsh on them.

Also unlike in 2011, when they were a much superior side to NZ which made the choke even more horrid, this time round, they are evenly matched, heck a combined team from both would have more NZ players.


Mc Cullum
Guptil
Kane
ABDV
Miller
Corey
Ronchi
Southee
Boult
Tahir
Abbot

 

[kiwiviktor81]

Could be wrong here, but did Kane not have Faf plum when they were scoring very slowly, but decided not to review it?

Yes. Bizarre all round, firstly that it wasn't really appealed for, second that it wasn't given, and third that it wasn't reviewed.

 

[Daemon]

Could be wrong here, but did Kane not have Faf plum when they were scoring very slowly, but decided not to review it? They made their fair share of mistakes as well, heck imagine the abuse Ross Taylor would have got if Steyn had delivered in that final over.

I am adamant they have choked horribly/hilariously before especially in 2011, but today its a little harsh on them.

Also unlike in 2011, when they were a much superior side to NZ which made the choke even more horrid, this time round, they are evenly matched, heck a combined team from both would have more NZ players.


Mc Cullum
Guptil
Kane
ABDV
Miller
Corey
Ronchi
Southee
Boult
Tahir
Abbot

Not exactly important to the point being made but Morkel over Abbot imo

 

[Niall]

Not exactly important to the point being made but Morkel over Abbot imo

My bad. Sorry.

Yeah definitely get in Morne for sure, totally forgot about him.

Sadly while I am fuming Abbot didn't play today, you would never have him ahead of Southee and Boult.

Anyhow, I'd be shocked if anyone could come up with a joint team where you would have more than six South African players.

Not a massive criticism on them, its just this is a bloody amazing NZ side.

Astonishing to think they were ranked seventh a few years ago.

 

[Furball]

Can't believe people are giving time of day to the OP when anyone who's read any of his posts will know he's an idiot.

 

[sharu7]

Yes, they got many chances and did not take advantage and NZ capitalized.

 

[SuperMurali]

No. But in four years time people will be calling it a choke

 

[Dissector]

If repeatedly failing to take straightforward chances in crunch situations isn't choking, what is? I think it was a poor final over by Steyn too.

I know there is a bit of a backlash to the South Africa choking meme at least on these boards but in this case I don't think it's warranted. At the least there is a decent case that it was a choke.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

Thought the KO quarters against SL let go all the monkeys off their back

 

[Shady Slim]

i reckon if it didn't rain SA would win