Dhoni is a superstar. Haters can suck it

[smalishah84]

Originally Posted by Jono

Yeah Bevan was a legend.

Him hitting that 4 off the last ball is still to this day one of my favourite childhood cricket memories.

I'd still say Viv shades him, but there is an argument either way. Same with Sachin and Ponting imo.

This

Originally Posted by Jono

Yeah, I almost feel that you're better off having a debate between Viv, Sachin and Ponting when it comes to ODI cricket.

Bevan played a completely different role.

and This

[Bun]

Originally Posted by Jono

Yeah, I almost feel that you're better off having a debate between Viv, Sachin and Ponting when it comes to ODI cricket.

Bevan played a completely different role.

Ponting doesn't belong there.

[Burgey]

Originally Posted by Bun

Ponting doesn't belong there.

Averaging 43 ish and striking at 80+ and he doesn't belong on the argument?

[vcs]

Originally Posted by Burgey

Averaging 43 ish and striking at 80+ and he doesn't belong on the argument?

He certainly does TBH, but he's just a shade beneath Sachin and Tendulkar. IMO of course.

I would put Viv ahead of Tendulkar in ODIs only on the grounds that he has the big centuries in WC knockout rounds, something Sachin couldn't quite get done. Still he won the WC he was waiting for, so that's a nice consolation. Before the tournament, I said if Sachin has a great WC and scores a match-winning century in the final (any one of the knockout games would have sufficed), I'll put him alongside Richards. Didn't happen, but he did pretty well all the same.

[silentstriker]

Originally Posted by smalishah84

you must be kidding????

No. Bevan was a fantastic ODI batsman, but I'd take Ponting over him - but they played different roles.

Dhoni plays a more similar role to Bevan but is harder hitting. However, Bevan was far superior to Dhoni as a finisher - so much more consistent. So definitely Bevan is ahead of Dhoni in my opinion. But he wouldn't be in my top five ODI batsman, and if he makes my top ten, it probably be at the bottom of that list. But to each his own I suppose.

As for Ponting, in ODIs, I have to say that I agree that I don't think he belongs with Tendulkar and Viv but IMO he's still up there, probably in the top five though I haven't really thought about anyone outside the top two. Dean Jones should make it up there too in that top ODI batsmen list.

[Spark]

Originally Posted by vcs

He certainly does TBH, but he's just a shade beneath Sachin and Tendulkar. IMO of course.

I would put Viv ahead of Tendulkar in ODIs only on the grounds that he has the big centuries in WC knockout rounds, something Sachin couldn't quite get done. Still he won the WC he was waiting for, so that's a nice consolation. Before the tournament, I said if Sachin has a great WC and scores a match-winning century in the final (any one of the knockout games would have sufficed), I'll put him alongside Richards. Didn't happen, but he did pretty well all the same.

OK, he's good, but he's not so good that he's equivalent to two players

[silentstriker]

Dwta.

[Burgey]

Originally Posted by vcs

He certainly does TBH, but he's just a shade beneath Sachin and Tendulkar. IMO of course.

I would put Viv ahead of Tendulkar in ODIs only on the grounds that he has the big centuries in WC knockout rounds, something Sachin couldn't quite get done. Still he won the WC he was waiting for, so that's a nice consolation. Before the tournament, I said if Sachin has a great WC and scores a match-winning century in the final (any one of the knockout games would have sufficed), I'll put him alongside Richards. Didn't happen, but he did pretty well all the same.

Yeah though it says a fair bit that it comes down to something like that to make a difference.

Certainly it's hard to argue against those two as the best in ODIs, and they would most likely be 1&2 for me. All I was saying is RTP belongs in the argument and is a top tier, and I mean very top tier, ODI player.

[Jono]

Don't see why a 100 in a knockout needs to occur instead of an 80+ score vs. Pakistan in a match where no one scored a hundred? You have to put the amount of runs in context.

Was dropped a few times obviously, but without his runs India would have definitely lost to Pakistan.

[silentstriker]

Originally Posted by Burgey

Yeah though it says a fair bit that it comes down to something like that to make a difference.

Certainly it's hard to argue against those two as the best in ODIs, and they would most likely be 1&2 for me. All I was saying is RTP belongs in the argument and is a top tier, and I mean very top tier, ODI player.

Yea, definitely top five, and possibly #3.

[vcs]

Originally Posted by Burgey

Yeah though it says a fair bit that it comes down to something like that to make a difference.

Certainly it's hard to argue against those two as the best in ODIs, and they would most likely be 1&2 for me. All I was saying is RTP belongs in the argument and is a top tier, and I mean very top tier, ODI player.

Like SS said, probably 3rd. Automatic in any ODI All-time XI.

Originally Posted by Jono

Don't see why a 100 in a knockout needs to occur instead of an 80+ score vs. Pakistan in a match where no one scored a hundred? You have to put the amount of runs in context.

Was dropped a few times obviously, but without his runs India would have definitely lost to Pakistan.

Yep, I realize it sounds ridiculously harsh to expect a century on demand like that in such high-pressure games, but that was just a personal criteria. Anyway, it's not a big deal. One knock is not going to drastically change anything because he had a superb World Cup anyway, just that it would have been a nice icing on the cake.

[Bun]

Jeez VCS you are indeed a hard man to please, mate!

[Ikki]

Originally Posted by smalishah84

Agree with this.

It boils down to personal preference as well to a certain degree. I like finishers better compared to hard hitting batsmen up the order. Bevan type batsmen a rare breed.

Me too. I have a greater respect for Bevan's 78* than many of Ponting's 100s, for example. The difference with Ponting making a huge score and Bevan was usually pressure, with the latter almost always under the pump when that kind of score was needed. With Bevan's 78* (and many other examples I can name) I was ****ting my pants, I don't know how he could overcome that kind of pressure out on the field...again...and again...and again. Incredible. The best player ever in terms of calculating a method to get to the result and minimising the risk he had to achieve it.

I also have no problem how people rate these guys - whether it be Viv, Sachin, Bevan or Ponting - but no player is 95>50 in ODIs. There is no Bradman equivalent. For me: Bevan >= Viv > Sachin > Ponting.

As an aside, I was looking through Youtube for Bevan innings and he has a 185* against Asia XI that he went absolutely berserk in. They lost by 1 run IIRC as the last shot a 6 was needed and his only went for a 4. Caddick also screwed them by not grounding his bat. Is one of the best ODI innings ever, even if it is not official.

[centurymaker]

Originally Posted by vcs

Like SS said, probably 3rd. Automatic in any ODI All-time XI.



Yep, I realize it sounds ridiculously harsh to expect a century on demand like that in such high-pressure games, but that was just a personal criteria. Anyway, it's not a big deal. One knock is not going to drastically change anything because he had a superb World Cup anyway, just that it would have been a nice icing on the cake.

His scores in the WC knock-out games
31, 65, 83, 4, 53, 85, 18
= 339 /7 = 48.43 avg
4 50's in 7 innings is pretty good, considering that he scores 50+ in every 3rd innings on avg.
A 100 is a 100 though haha

[vcs]

Originally Posted by centurymaker

His scores in the WC knock-out games
31, 65, 83, 4, 53, 85, 18
= 339 /7 = 48.43 avg
4 50's in 7 innings is pretty good, considering that he scores 50+ in every 3rd innings on avg.

Yeah, his record is very good, no question. And the sample size is just LOL compared to the size of his career, 7 games out of 450 odd. Still Viv averaging 70 odd in those knockout games with big hundreds in finals etc. to his name has got to count for something.