Dhoni is a superstar. Haters can suck it

[Jono]

Point is you didn't take the route of just saying "I disagree with you calling it silly" comment. You clearly tried to frame the debate as if by me calling your post silly (oh the humanity) I was saying you're a Dhoni hater. Which is incredibly misleading.

It was clearly a stretch, and by your posting you realise that. Not sure why you can't admit you overreacted and should have just played the post.

[Ikki]

Originally Posted by Jono

See, I'm willing to take the WC argument. That is fine. And I don't even have Dhoni near Bevan yet. However I can understand where the finisher arguments have come from. They are similar to Hussey.

Do you protest the arguments against Hussey being compared to Bevan in ODIs? Because those weren't from World Cups, but non-WC matches.

How much of Bevan are you actually placing on WC matches? Many of his famous innings were played at home in Australia. Others in India in random tri-series.

I hold Hussey to the same standard I hold Dhoni. And I think, really, he was better than the other two when I look at ability. But I do not hold Hussey as Bevan's equal precisely for the same reasons I do not hold Dhoni his equal.

Outside of the WCs, their records are pretty close but I'd maintain that Bevan was more complete and his averages across opponents is incredibly consistent. I listed several of his notable WC knocks months back when we were discussing this. I put a lot of value on them but it's not like his record rests on them. He has an incredible record regardless and as a finisher is unmatched IMO - especially when you look at the bowling attacks of ODI back then.

[salman85]

Dhoni is the best captain in world right now.Also,the fact that he has two world cups under his belt makes a very strong case for him to be the best Indian captain ever.Whether he goes on to become the greatest indisputed Indian captain ever remains to be seen,and a lot of that would depend on how India perform in away tours in the next few years,but i wouldn't put it past Dhoni to lead them to great heights in the test arena too.

Today's innings was very special indeed.Dhoni might call it his best innings ever,but i think he's played better.Whereas this innings might not classify as the best ever played in a WC final,Dhoni played brilliantly and deserves all the accolades he's getting right now.The only thing where i think he could use a slight improvement is his post match comments,where he should start giving some credit to the opposition too.Otherwise,the man is brilliant.

[Ikki]

Originally Posted by Jono

Point is you didn't take the route of just saying "I disagree with you calling it silly" comment. You clearly tried to frame the debate as if by me calling your post silly (oh the humanity) I was saying you're a Dhoni hater. Which is incredibly misleading.

It was clearly a stretch, and by your posting you realise that. Not sure why you can't admit you overreacted and should have just played the post.

TBH, I didn't appreciate your tone when making those posts after the game. It was as if you were calling people who thought like that out. It's like an "I told you so" and worse, you don't even acknowledge that it could be a perfectly reasonable position to take. You said it was a silly comment; however you meant it. I am here posting, trying to show why it wasn't. That not only do I not have a personal agenda against Dhoni (I actually like him, even if you weren't suggesting it) nor was it a statement made in the heat of the game. I held that opinion months before the match and still hold it even after his fine innings.

Anyway, I don't think it's worth this much fuss. Enjoy your WC win, you bastard.

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Ikki

I hold Hussey to the same standard I hold Dhoni. And I think, really, he was better than the other two when I look at ability. But I do not hold Hussey as Bevan's equal precisely for the same reasons I do not hold Dhoni his equal.

Outside of the WCs, their records are pretty close but I'd maintain that Bevan was more complete and his averages across opponents is incredibly consistent. I listed several of his notable WC knocks months back when we were discussing this. I put a lot of value on them but it's not like his record rests on them. He has an incredible record regardless and as a finisher is unmatched IMO - especially when you look at the bowling attacks of ODI back then.

That's fair enough.

Originally Posted by Ikki

TBH, I didn't appreciate your tone when making those posts after the game. It was as if you were calling people who thought like that out. It's like an "I told you so" and worse, you don't even acknowledge that it could be a perfectly reasonable position to take. You said it was a silly comment; however you meant it. I am here posting, trying to show why it wasn't. That not only do I not have a personal agenda against Dhoni (I actually like him, even if you weren't suggesting it) nor was it a statement made in the heat of the game. I held that opinion months before the match and still hold it even after his fine innings.

Anyway, I don't think it's worth this much fuss. Enjoy your WC win, you bastard.

Tbf I disagreed with your Dhoni comment immediately after the Australia win. So before India had even made the final, let alone before he'd scored in the final.

I rate Dhoni extremely highly as an ODI batsman. I'd say two years ago he was the best in the world, until AB Devilliers took that mantle. I felt the mocking right after he failed when out of form was pretty opportunistic tbh (let me stress, not personal!!!)

Anyway.

[smalishah84]

Originally Posted by Jono

I rate Dhoni extremely highly as an ODI batsman. I'd say two years ago he was the best in the world, until AB Devilliers took that mantle.
Anyway.

I also rate Dhoni very highly as an ODI batsman.

And secondly. Hashim Amla might have a few things to say about your choice of best ODI batsman in the world.

[jeevan]

Talking of ODI batting rankings - the official ones - Kohli (joint 6th), Dhoni, SRT, Gambhir, Sehwag (8-11) are ranked consecutively. What a coincidence...

[silentstriker]

Bevan was a fantastic ODI batsman, but he's way way way overrated when people start bringing him into the 'best ODI batsman ever' type discussions.

[smalishah84]

Originally Posted by silentstriker

Bevan was a fantastic ODI batsman, but he's way way way overrated when people start bringing him into the 'best ODI batsman ever' type discussions.

you must be kidding????

[Ikki]

[Bun]

Originally Posted by silentstriker

Bevan was a fantastic ODI batsman, but he's way way way overrated when people start bringing him into the 'best ODI batsman ever' type discussions.

Slightly disagree.. He is overrated (understandably) by some Aussie posters, but he definitely has merit enough to be considered in a discussion of best ODI batsmen.

[Sanz]

Originally Posted by Bun

Slightly disagree.. He is overrated (understandably) by some Aussie posters, but he definitely has merit enough to be considered in a discussion of best ODI batsmen.

How close he is to Sir IVA Richards as an ODI batsman ?

On a scale of 1-100, I will have IVAR a freaking 95. Bevan at 50. That's how close he is.

[Bun]

Originally Posted by Sanz

How close he is to Sir IVA Richards as an ODI batsman ?

On a scale of 1-100, I will have IVAR a freaking 95. Bevan at 50. That's how close he is.

King Viv is right up there at the top. Perhaps alongwith or slightly below Tendulkar. But if you take say 5-6 best ODI batsmen ever, it is almost impossible to omit Bevan from that.

[Ikki]

Originally Posted by Sanz

How close he is to Sir IVA Richards as an ODI batsman ?

On a scale of 1-100, I will have IVAR a freaking 95. Bevan at 50. That's how close he is.

The bolded is your opinion, but unadulterated tripe.

Viv and Bevan were completely different ODI batsmen. Viv was a hard-hitting #3/4 and Bevan a finisher (although he averaged 60! at #4). One set up big scores, the other one chased them. In terms of upper order batsmen there probably is no one as good as Viv, with Sachin just behind. In terms of finishing there is no one like Bevan.

[smalishah84]

Originally Posted by Ikki

The bolded is your opinion, but unadulterated tripe.

Viv and Bevan were completely different ODI batsmen. Viv was a hard-hitting #3/4 and Bevan a finisher (although he averaged 60! at #4). One set up big scores, the other one chased them. In terms of upper order batsmen there probably is no one as good as Viv, with Sachin just behind. In terms of finishing there is no one like Bevan.

Agree with this.

It boils down to personal preference as well to a certain degree. I like finishers better compared to hard hitting batsmen up the order. Bevan type batsmen a rare breed.