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Dhoni is a superstar. Haters can suck it

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
There was a couple of silly posts about him after he went out vs. Australia.

Nevertheless, there aren't many "haters". Overreaction this thread :laugh:

What a captain's innings though. WAFG
Nah, I am not trying to pick any fights. I am just too choked with Dhoni love and hence the thread. Although it was motivated those posts you referred to, I don't mean to bait anyone.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
There was a couple of silly posts about him after he went out vs. Australia.
Not really. He was critiqued for not performing in WCs and his record is still very ordinary in that regard. He played a great innings today but his highest score before this was 34, across two world cups. Let's not pretend people had a personal agenda against him.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Would love to know where I said personal agenda, or even implied it. I'd rather you not put words in my mouth.
 
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Guru#1

Cricket Spectator
my heart nearly popped out :(!!! fantastic innings by dhoni! showing that he is an awesome captain holding the world cup and holding the last innings.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
So silly using Dhoni's 2007 WC record against him. Played Bermuda, Bangladesh, who if he scored against would have been discounted even though India lost that game, and got a first ball beauty from Murali.

That's all he played. :dry:

The guy's ODI record speaks for itself ffs. So he was out of form heading into the WC. He worked on it and played well today. I doubt many give a **** about his WC record against Ireland and Netherlands 8-)
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Would love to know where I said personal agenda, or even implied it. I'd rather you not put words in my mouth.
Although you said there weren't many "haters" you made a concession that people made "silly" posts after he got out against Australia. That doesn't refer to people disliking him - i.e. "haters"? It insinuates as much.

That's all he played. :dry:
He's played against S.Africa, Australia, WIndies, Sri Lanka, England and Pakistan in WCs before this match and his highest score against them was 31.
 
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Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Haha wtf?

By silly I meant misinformed and heat of the moment posting which is what that posting in the Aust vs. Ind thread was. Most haven't seen half of Dhoni's brilliant innings, but judge him when he's out of form or a 1-baller vs. SL in 2007. It's silly posting.

Jeez, I say that this thread is an overreaction and I get panned from you nevertheless. Very odd.
 

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
I think Dhoni was batting at the wrong position in this world cup and hence the poor performances. Nothing to do with not being able to perform on big stage. He is better off at 5 and a position where he has the option to start slow and then explode.

And Ikki, remember you saying on Dhoni vs Gilchrist comparison that there is no case till Dhoni plays the kind of knock that Gilchrist played in WC 2007 final. So Dhoni merits comparison now 8-)
 

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
"Haters can suck it" is a CW catch phrase. Allow me to use it liberally without having to justify the use of word "haters" :dry:
 

vcs

Request Your Custom Title Now!
The knives were out for his ODI career record based on a sample space consisting of about a dozen WC games. Excellent to ATG ODI batsmen like Rhodes, Astle, Inzamam and Hussey average about the same as him in WCs (before this latest knock)... that's just how it goes when a tournament comes about once every four years. Some people are flattered by their WC records, and some are better than their record in that tournament indicates. Besides, he's just 29 and probably has another 2 WCs to go to improve that record further. :cool:

Rhodes : 20.82@87.84 from 20 innings (HS 43)
Astle : 20.15@70.15 from 22 innings (despite 2 hundreds)
Inzamam : 23.90@74.6 from 33 innings (HS 81)
Hussey : 19.50@82.10 from 9 innings (HS 54 against Kenya)

Hardly in poor company, MS, even if he hadn't come good today.
 
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Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
He's played against S.Africa, Australia, WIndies, Sri Lanka, England and Pakistan in WCs before this match and his highest score against them was 31.
Yep, he was out of form and batting low in this World Cup. He'd been out of form heading into the WC too, and everyone said so.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Haha wtf?

By silly I meant misinformed and heat of the moment posting which is what that posting in the Aust vs. Ind thread was. Most haven't seen half of Dhoni's brilliant innings, but judge him when he's out of form or a 1-baller vs. SL in 2007. It's silly posting.

Jeez, I say that this thread is an overreaction and I get panned from you nevertheless. Very odd.
I am not really referring to this thread, but the post you made here and the one in the match thread. You make it sound like this one knock makes the prior criticisms suddenly invalid. There is nothing misinformed about the critique Dhoni had gotten for not stepping up at WCs.

I think Dhoni was batting at the wrong position in this world cup and hence the poor performances. Nothing to do with not being able to perform on big stage. He is better off at 5 and a position where he has the option to start slow and then explode.

And Ikki, remember you saying on Dhoni vs Gilchrist comparison that there is no case till Dhoni plays the kind of knock that Gilchrist played in WC 2007 final. So Dhoni merits comparison now 8-)
Gilchrist has performed far better than Dhoni in WCs although Dhoni is probably better than him overall.

I don't recall saying that but I may have. My gripe is with Dhoni being compared to Bevan. Dhoni has never played the kind of innings Bevan has at WCs. And that's not something I bring up as some sort of tie-breaker - because I think Bevan is better overall regardless. I think it shows a clear lack of respect to compare a colossus of the limited overs game to someone who before today had never played an innings of note at the most important event in said format.

A great knock today, but outside it Dhoni had a very forgettable tourney.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Fairly certain you haven't watched the last three years of Indian ODI cricket really and its obvious you're basing your estimations on World Cups.

Fine do that, but when people rate Dhoni because of what he's done in the format, and you haven't seen it, probably best not to discard them.
 

vcs

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Well Bevan picked up 2 WC medals without batting or bowling in either final. :ph34r:

TBF, there are very few batsmen as good as Bevan, so it's hardly an insult to Dhoni. I don't agree that he's not even comparable to him though, yes Bevan's WC record gives him the edge, but they are certainly comparable, just like Tendulkar and Dravid are comparable in Tests, with one being just a little better by common consensus. And people rate Bevan very high because they followed his career in entirety, not just 3-4 WC knocks, but Dhoni doesn't seem to be extended the same courtesy.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
I am not really referring to this thread, but the post you made here and the one in the match thread. You make it sound like this one knock makes the prior criticisms suddenly invalid. There is nothing misinformed about the critique Dhoni had gotten for not stepping up at WCs.
Hang on. Now you're back tracking.

Point to me where I implied the criticisms of Dhoni were personal.

You can't. Because I never once suggested as much. And you shouldn't make ridiculous claims like that and expect not to get called out on it.

It's a **** way to discuss cricket, and you personalise the discussion.

Fine debate the merits, but don't make accusations you can't back up.
 

Daemon

Request Your Custom Title Now!
LOL MAHENDRA SINGH DHONI IS KING!

India just won. im sorry everyone, india JUST WON>
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Hang on. Now you're back tracking.

Point to me where I implied the criticisms of Dhoni were personal.

You can't. Because I never once suggested as much. And you shouldn't make ridiculous claims like that and expect not to get called out on it.

It's a **** way to discuss cricket, and you personalise the discussion.

Fine debate the merits, but don't make accusations you can't back up.
I'm not sure how you see it, but the term "haters" is one used for people who seem to illogically bash other people for some type of jealousy. I said in your post you concede that there aren't many haters but state that silly things were said about Dhoni. Translated to me that means: "well, there are a hater-like comments, but there aren't many haters".

But nothing silly was said. He had a poor WC record, and still has a very ordinary one. Where does pointing out facts suddenly become a silly comment? I am not making this personal but just calling you on trying to make this one innings as a justification of your disagreement with Dhoni's non-performance in WCs.

Fairly certain you haven't watched the last three years of Indian ODI cricket really and its obvious you're basing your estimations on World Cups.

Fine do that, but when people rate Dhoni because of what he's done in the format, and you haven't seen it, probably best not to discard them.
No, that's a cop out. No one is trying to separate his ODI performances overall with WC ODI performances to belittle him. He was being compared to Bevan months back and in my mind if you think Dhoni deserves to be compared to Bevan (especially as a finisher) then he has to do things that Bevan did. Bevan was a very special player and played the kinds of innings Dhoni has yet to do. He played a fine knock today, but they do not compare to the innings Bevan played when Australia were a hair away from losing in many matches.

Maybe you will understand this in time, as your country has just won the WC, that this kind of achievement made is a truly special one. It is so different to CT trophies or the glorified exhibition matches which are played year round. Maybe Dhoni will go on and have an awesome WC next time and become the highest run scorer, and you win another WC. Then maybe in the future a new player comes along where people try to compare the two players. And then you will understand that your appreciation of Dhoni is not merely in the ordinary matches but in the pressure-cooker, emotionally charged, games which represent the pinnacle of this format.

Then you will appreciate why someone like me expects much more from batsmen trying to compare to someone like Bevan as you will expect much more from batsmen who may want to compare to Dhoni.
 
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ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
Maybe you will understand this in time, as your country has just won the WC, that this kind of achievement made is a truly special one.
As far as I am concerned, my assessment of Dhoni has changed quite dramatically after this knock and that's because you just play a handful of world cup finals in a career.
 

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