*Official* Quarter Final 3 - New Zealand v South Africa

[smash84]

Mate you have 3700 posts I am willing to wager that 500 of them are either 'this' or 'awta'...please increase the percentage of your posts that have value add comments. When you do make comments they are usually good.

awta

 

[smash84]

this

I saw that coming...

Beat me to it, ****.

this

 

[pup11]

I don't know about the Black cap fans but I find this whole thing of turning Brendon McCullum into an ODI opener to be pretty lame, I mean when he was batting in the middle order he was probably one of the best finishers around and he is also one the better players of spin in the team so all that would suggest he is much better batting down the order.

If New Zealand want flying starts in the first 15 then they can either open with Ryder or maybe even use someone like Oram as an opener.

Also Styris batting at #6 is something that I don't find that smart, he is the most experienced batsman in the ranks and his job should be to bat somewhere near the top of the order and lay a platform for strokeplayers like Taylor, Franklin and McCullums to come in later and make the most of it.

Without any doubt their is plenty of firepower in this New Zealand side all they need to do is use their resources smartly rather than playing like a team with no plans.

 

[smash84]

Agree with the Styris bit there. Styris should come in at number 4 for NZ. McCullum as an opener has given them some good starts a fair number of times so it is not such a bad idea. Have not seen him too much against spin to comment on that.

 

[M0rphin3]

I don't know about the Black cap fans but I find this whole thing of turning Brendon McCullum into an ODI opener to be pretty lame, I mean when he was batting in the middle order he was probably one of the best finishers around and he is also one the better players of spin in the team so all that would suggest he is much better batting down the order.

Demoted him down the order in the Pak series, didn't work out well. He should continue to open imo

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

McCullum batting 2nd in ODI's (Guptil faces the first ball)

43 innings, 1560 runs @ 41.05 S/R 99.93

 

[Athlai]

McCullum batting 2nd in ODI's (Guptil faces the first ball)

43 innings, 1560 runs @ 41.05 S/R 99.93

Haha never really understood why there is such a marked difference in his starts batting at #1 and #2.

 

[vcs]

Haha never really understood why there is such a marked difference in his starts batting at #1 and #2.

Tendulkar also has a big difference in his average at #1 and #2, though in his most famous ODI innings against Pakistan in the 2003 WC, he took strike first. Hard to explain the discrepancy.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting

 

[Mike5181]

The sad thing is **** all New Zealanders will even watch the game. Trying to talk about cricket with the regular NZ guy and they are like wtf. I'd beat some super 15 game would draw more interest.

 

[pup11]

Demoted him down the order in the Pak series, didn't work out well. He should continue to open imo

Just becuase it didn't work for a few games doesn't mean its a bad idea, at present the moment Taylor's wicket falls the writing is pretty much on the wall for New Zealand in terms of the result and I think they need to change that.

Having a guy with the experience and ability of McCullum at #6 always gives New Zealand a chance to come back into the in case things go wrong at the top of the order.

 

[Days of Grace]

Agree with the Styris bit there. Styris should come in at number 4 for NZ. McCullum as an opener has given them some good starts a fair number of times so it is not such a bad idea. Have not seen him too much against spin to comment on that.

Don't really agree. Whilst Styris is generally our best player at working singles in the middle overs, he is really awesome at finishing an innings.

 

[smash84]

yeah but Styris hasn't been so great at finishing the innings of late I think. He is also one of those players that needs some time in the middle rather than just start hitting from ball one. More time in the middle won't hurt him at all IMO

 

[straw man]

Talk in the newspapers of Woodcock getting a game, perhaps at the expense of Franklin.

Both potential wicket blocks have taken spin over the tournament, meaning left-arm orthodox Luke Woodcock may be considered for the quarter-final.

"We will have a look at the wicket," Wright said. "Luke's probably got a bigger chance [of being selected] than he has had in any other game at the tournament if it's a typical Dhaka wicket."

Wright indicated Scott Styris will move to bat at five for the match. That means James Franklin will either move down the order or drop out.

If Woodcock is preferred - and it still seems a long shot given he was not even tested against the likes of Canada in Vettori's absence - that could see Kane Williamson drop out, too. It means New Zealand would go into the match with three spinners, a tactic that worked well for Bangladesh when they beat New Zealand 4-0 on the Dhaka surface in October.

I wouldn't mind this idea as much if Woodcock had actually played a game this tournament. But if this is true then wtf were they thinking playing Williamson against Canada and Sri Lanka?

 

[smash84]

Woodcock must be getting a wood-**** reading such articles

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

Just because it didn't work for a few games doesn't mean its a bad idea, at present the moment Taylor's wicket falls the writing is pretty much on the wall for New Zealand in terms of the result and I think they need to change that.

Just because as soon as "Taylor's wicket falls the writing is pretty much on the wall for New Zealand" has occurred for a few games doesn't mean it's always going to happen.

Before Akmal's birthday gifts, Taylor was doing nothing at all and it was the guys below him that were actually bring the game back for NZ.

Actually......
"at present the moment Taylor's wicket falls the writing is pretty much on the wall"
refers to what? I don't get it.
- He didn't even bat against Kenya and Zimbabwe.
- The Australia game was before his century when he was still horribly out of nick. The higher scores actually came from below him
- The Pakistan match, he finished not out
- The Canada match he got 74 and, once he got out, Williamson, Styris, and Franklin finished off the innings.

Oh, I see, you were talking about the single, solitary Sri Lanka match where Murali ran through the whole side...

Having a guy with the experience and ability of McCullum at #6 always gives New Zealand a chance to come back into the in case things go wrong at the top of the order.

Nathan McCullum
James Franklin
Jacob Oram

There are plenty of guys who can do what you think McCullum can do down the order. Any one of them can do a decent job down the order in case things go wrong at the top. If Brendon shifted down the order then NZ would just be adding a another lower order hitter whilst removing someone who can have an impact up the top.

So McCullum drops down and you open with Ryder? Taylor at 3 and Styris at 4? Franklin at 5?

I'd rather Ryder didn't open.
Taylor at 3 and Styris at 4 is OK with me, although a Ryder-Taylor 3-4 is the best.
Franklin at 5. Hell no!

Basically what you are saying is we should bat one of our better batsman down at 6 so he can finish off games. By batting him at 6 you are basically preparing for failure. If he has time to bat, the top order must have already failed. If he is there to finish of the order then he is doing a job that 3-4 other guys can do themselves (or share between them). It's like taking somebody from a position of weakness it the NZ set up and putting them down to where there is reasonable strength.

People seem to think McCullum was an amazing finisher, but something tells me thats more rose-tinted glasses than anything else.

Cue Howsie to remark on how poor McCullum has been opening the innings, remove minnows etc.

 

[Mike5181]

Talk in the newspapers of Woodcock getting a game, perhaps at the expense of Franklin.



I wouldn't mind this idea as much if Woodcock had actually played a game this tournament. But if this is true then wtf were they thinking playing Williamson against Canada and Sri Lanka?

I doubt it to be honest. Then again last time we played Bangladesh they threw 40 overs of spin against us. Sri Lanka won't be troubled by Woodcock surely? Only if they face him for 8 hours i guess. Then they might need to bring in some help.

Don't see any problem with the combination we have now.

1. McCullum
2. Guptill
3. Ryder
4. Taylor
5. Styris
6. Franklin
7. N McCullum
8. Oram
9. Mills
10. Vettori
11. Southee

We need all the batting we can get and fittingly we do actually have batsmen all the way down the order. I doubt it will be the bowling that will let us down to be honest.

 

[Flem274*]

Kiwininja on the charge.

Most of our ODI runs of late have come from Guptill, Franklin, NcCullum and occassionally Ryder...

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

yeah but Styris hasn't been so great at finishing the innings of late I think. He is also one of those players that needs some time in the middle rather than just start hitting from ball one. More time in the middle won't hurt him at all IMO

Styris really isn't in the side to finish off the innings though. He should be batting 5 in front of Franklin, and I think sanity has finally prevailed on this front.
- He didn't bat against Kenya or Canada
- He failed against Australia, but so did everyone else.
- 28 (37) against Pakistan. Did OK milking it around with Taylor, then got out in the first over of the batting PP. Turned out to be a blessing in disguise.
- 35 (20) against Canada. In this case he played a finisher type knock.
- Failed against Sri Lanka like the rest of the side.

So he has only had the chance to finish once, even though he shouldn't be considered a finisher. And in that innings he scored 35 (20).

Huge sample size, but 1/1 isn't bad.

But more to the point, we have Franklin, NcCullum and Oram to finish innings. And hopefully Taylor or Ryder when they have already passed 100. Styris can do the job, but playing a more sensible role alongside the aggression of some of the other batsman is really what he is there for. He really hasn't had the chances to do anything so far.

 

[GGG]

The sad thing is **** all New Zealanders will even watch the game. Trying to talk about cricket with the regular NZ guy and they are like wtf. I'd beat some super 15 game would draw more interest.

Until they start winning then everyone is suddenly their number one fan.

 

[smash84]

Styris can do the job, but playing a more sensible role alongside the aggression of some of the other batsman is really what he is there for. He really hasn't had the chances to do anything so far.

I think this was what i was trying to point out