Have South Africa taken a big step in removing the CHOKERS tag

[Spark]

You cannot legitimately argue that "oh well, SA just got badly outplayed, there was nothing they could have done" given the way Kallis, ABdV and Duminy (especially Duminy) got out.

[Jono]

Haha and it's not just a coincidence that SA suddenly get outplayed in a must-win knock-out match, yet are always favourites or second favourites before the tournament.

[8ankitj]

Agree with this article too: South Africa need to face their reality

Smith was not willing to admit their mental fragility in yesterday's press conference too. As painful as it is to face the choke question, SA must admit it to themselves and then fix it.

[pup11]

The fact of the matter is everytime South Africa loses in a knock out game one shouldn't just brush aside the other team's effort.

If you look at South Africa's worldcup record:
# 1992- they were robbed by the D/L method.
#1996- Lara's brilliance knocked them out.
# 1999- Warne worked his magic.
# 2003- They misinterpreted the D/L method.
#2007- Were blow away by McGrath & Co.
#2011- A very determined New Zealand side got the better of them.

So if you look at it the South Africans have either been very unlucky or they have just run into a team that has outplayed them on that given day.

Last night New Zealand's intensity and hunger were top notch and South Africa really could match that intensity, so its pretty unfair to say New Zealand won just because the Saffers choked.

[Bun]

Originally Posted by pup11

The fact of the matter is everytime South Africa loses in a knock out game one shouldn't just brush aside the other team's effort.

If you look at South Africa's worldcup record:
# 1992- they were robbed by the D/L method.
#1996- Lara's brilliance knocked them out.
# 1999- Warne worked his magic.
# 2003- They misinterpreted the D/L method.
#2007- Were blow away by McGrath & Co.
#2011- A very determined New Zealand side got the better of them.

So if you look at it the South Africans have either been very unlucky or they have just run into a team that has outplayed them on that given day.

Last night New Zealand's intensity and hunger were top notch and South Africa really could match that intensity, so its pretty unfair to say New Zealand won just because the Saffers choked.

[honestbharani]

Originally Posted by pup11

The fact of the matter is everytime South Africa loses in a knock out game one shouldn't just brush aside the other team's effort.

If you look at South Africa's worldcup record:
# 1992- they were robbed by the D/L method.
#1996- Lara's brilliance knocked them out.
# 1999- Warne worked his magic.
# 2003- They misinterpreted the D/L method.
#2007- Were blow away by McGrath & Co.
#2011- A very determined New Zealand side got the better of them.

So if you look at it the South Africans have either been very unlucky or they have just run into a team that has outplayed them on that given day.

Last night New Zealand's intensity and hunger were top notch and South Africa really could match that intensity, so its pretty unfair to say New Zealand won just because the Saffers choked.

In 1999, they needed 1 off 4 balls with a wicket in hand.. None of this Warne magic ****.. As good as he was, RSA had no right tieing that game..

[Top_Cat]

Originally Posted by pup11

The fact of the matter is everytime South Africa loses in a knock out game one shouldn't just brush aside the other team's effort.

If you look at South Africa's worldcup record:
# 1992- they were robbed by the D/L method.

No D/L back then. The rain rule did cost them but they were unforgivably slow in their own overs with the ball so they helped create the problem.

Originally Posted by pup11

# 1999- Warne worked his magic.

They were cruising chasing a crap score until Warne came on. Warne broke the back of the batting but with Klusener going hard, they put themselves into a massively favourable position. And then Donald didn't run......

Originally Posted by pup11

# 2003- They misinterpreted the D/L method.

Absolutely no excuse = absolutely zero sympathy.

Originally Posted by pup11

#2007- Were blow away by McGrath & Co.

haha, come on. Such a choke. Kallis stepping away to thrash McGrath and getting bowled? Smith getting bowled walking down the track? Prince with a wild swipe? Those are all pressure-releasing shots, champ.

Anyway, the choker tag isn't one based entirely on logic, other teams choke. So trying to refute it factually is ultimately meaningless. But very few other teams have anywhere near the same shaddenfraude quotient when they do fall in a heap. SA just have the whiff of chokers about them. Play enough sport and you can smell it a mile off.

[Cevno]

Originally Posted by Dissector

Um you are aware that South Africa beat India in India in 2000 : 2-0 right? Talk about a forgotten series.

Wasn't that the match fixing series?

[honestbharani]

Originally Posted by Cevno

Wasn't that the match fixing series?

Nope.. those were the ODIs.. We were well and truly thrashed by a MUCH better side in the tests.. End Of.

[Bun]

Originally Posted by Cevno

Wasn't that the match fixing series?

No, it was the england series

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Top_Cat

haha, come on. Such a choke. Kallis stepping away to thrash McGrath and getting bowled? Smith getting bowled walking down the track? Prince with a wild swipe? Those are all pressure-releasing shots, champ.

Exactly.

2007 was the biggest choke. Ponting and Hayden bagged them for scoring slowly before the match, and they responded by playing into Australia's hands and trying to charge and score at 10rpo

[Top_Cat]

All that was missing was Ponting saying "Syke!" at the press conference after.

[Spark]

Originally Posted by Jono

Haha and it's not just a coincidence that SA suddenly get outplayed in a must-win knock-out match, yet are always favourites or second favourites before the tournament.

Yeah precisely. If they'd been knocked out narrowly vs India or SL having fought til the end, the choking tag would be much less justified despite their pitiful knockout record (0% success rate in WCs). But instead they committed high-grade self-immolation against a team that was not exactly working magic, and by common consent. Exceptionally disciplined, committed, hungry and with immense self-belief but those shouldn't have, in the end, made a difference to the result, given the quality of SA's batting lineup. But they just ****ed themselves immensely by playing deadset moronic cricket. NZ deserved the win because exploiting an opponent's weaknesses is a crucial and highly commendable skill, but that doesn't mean the weaknesses aren't there, and they aren't glaring.

With the 07 match... I wonder how much of it was the fear that if they didn't get a gigantic score it wouldn't be safe, having been absolutely murdered by Aus top order earlier on...

[Cevno]

Originally Posted by honestbharani

In 1999, they needed 1 off 4 balls with a wicket in hand.. None of this Warne magic ****.. As good as he was, RSA had no right tieing that game..

Not to forget Gibbs drop in the super six match.

[smalishah84]

Originally Posted by Cevno

Not to forget Gibbs drop in the super six match.

I wouldn't include that as part of the choke.........