Have South Africa taken a big step in removing the CHOKERS tag - Page 3

slip · 13-03-2011, 12:16 AM

They have to win a World Cup to remove the chokers tag.

smalishah84 · 13-03-2011, 12:40 AM

Good summary from Tooextracool

zorax · 13-03-2011, 03:31 AM

@ Topic Title - I certainly think so. This was the sort of situation South Africans are renowned for losing their heads in, 46 in 5 overs with on Du Plessis, Botha, Peterson and Steyn/Morkel to come. But Botha rose to the occasion, du Plessis kept his head, and Peterson blazed them home. Quite impressive.

Jono · 13-03-2011, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tooextracool

Correct me if I am wrong here but this is SA's record in world cup knock out games:

92 World Cup: 1st knockout game = semis vs England. Result: Lost
96 World cup: 1st knockout game = Quarters vs WI. Result: Lost
99 World Cup: 1st knockout game = Semis vs Australia. Result: Lost
2003 World Cup: Didnt reach knockout stage
2007 World Cup: 1st knockout game = Semis vs Australia. Result: Lost
2011 World Cup. 1st knockout game = Quarters vs ? Result: ?

2007 T20 World Cup: Didnt reach knockout stage
2009 T20 World Cup: 1st knockout game = Semis vs Pakistan. Result: Lost
2010 t20 World Cup: Didnt reach knockout stage.

Given that they have lost 100% of their knockout games in history, it is a bit hard to understand how beating India in a rather meaningless game is supposed to cure 19 years that they've spent building and enhancing their reputation as the game's finest World cup knockout chokers. The only way to remove the tag is for them to replace that question mark with a win.

Haha that's astonishing.

vcs · 13-03-2011, 05:19 AM

Not really. Nothing worthy of drawing conclusions from, anyway.

Jono · 13-03-2011, 05:21 AM

Unfortunately you haven't supported that with anything. All evidence suggests they bottle it. It's not just a myth that they don't perform in world tournaments.

Would love to know their record in recent Champions Trophy tournaments as well.

Blaze 18 · 13-03-2011, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tooextracool

Correct me if I am wrong here but this is SA's record in world cup knock out games:

92 World Cup: 1st knockout game = semis vs England. Result: Lost
96 World cup: 1st knockout game = Quarters vs WI. Result: Lost
99 World Cup: 1st knockout game = Semis vs Australia. Result: Lost
2003 World Cup: Didnt reach knockout stage
2007 World Cup: 1st knockout game = Semis vs Australia. Result: Lost
2011 World Cup. 1st knockout game = Quarters vs ? Result: ?

2007 T20 World Cup: Didnt reach knockout stage
2009 T20 World Cup: 1st knockout game = Semis vs Pakistan. Result: Lost
2010 t20 World Cup: Didnt reach knockout stage.

Given that they have lost 100% of their knockout games in history, it is a bit hard to understand how beating India in a rather meaningless game is supposed to cure 19 years that they've spent building and enhancing their reputation as the game's finest World cup knockout chokers. The only way to remove the tag is for them to replace that question mark with a win.

vcs · 13-03-2011, 05:26 AM

How many WC knockout games have NZ won? Are they chokers as well? It's four or five games FFS.

I do think there's an element of mental fragility about them under pressure, but you can't draw that conclusion based on a list of knockout results, you have to watch them play.

FTR, SA won the inaugural Champions Trophy in '98 when Tendulkar scored that hundred against Australia and took 4 wickets in the same game. Beat WI in the final IIRC.

Jono · 13-03-2011, 05:26 AM

Of course NZ have had the talent that South Africa have had in the last 10-12 years

Jono · 13-03-2011, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcs

you have to watch them play.

I daresay most people on this forum have done that.

2007 WC semi stands out the most to me. A perfect example of Australian mindgames absolutely owning South Africa. The match was lost before the coin was even tossed

vcs · 13-03-2011, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jono

Of course NZ have had the talent that South Africa have had in the last 10-12 years

That is not the point. You cannot list a set of results to prove it is all I'm saying. SA have also lost to some damn good teams and individual performances (Lara, Ambrose, McGrath etc.) in that timeframe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jono

I daresay most people on this forum have done that.

2007 WC semi stands out the most to me. A perfect example of Australian mindgames absolutely owning South Africa. The match was lost before the coin was even tossed

Yeah, I know people have watched SA.. and I agree they froze terribly in the 2007 semi after talking themselves up a great deal. I do think that is what makes people take extra pleasure in their failure.. they talk themselves up before the event, especially against Australia, and then fail to deliver.

FaaipDeOiad · 13-03-2011, 06:03 AM

For me, nothing will come close to the '99 semi-final for choking, in a game of cricket, any form of the game. The run-out that forced the tie was bad enough, but when you realise that they still had two more balls to go after that to score one run with a high quality, set batsman on strike... it's just astonishing. If they just chose not to run and waited for another ball, they would have almost certainly won that world cup. The word is thrown around a lot in high level sport but the end of that game was the definition of a choke.

YouTube - Drama of 1999 world cup semi final

Prad100w · 13-03-2011, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcs

How many WC knockout games have NZ won? Are they chokers as well? It's four or five games FFS.

I do think there's an element of mental fragility about them under pressure, but you can't draw that conclusion based on a list of knockout results, you have to watch them play.

FTR, SA won the inaugural Champions Trophy in '98 when Tendulkar scored that hundred against Australia and took 4 wickets in the same game. Beat WI in the final IIRC.

I kinda agree with this. The chokers tag is a bit overrated.

Cruxdude45 · 13-03-2011, 09:08 AM

Rsa only start playing in 1992.How many team have won WC since then

Jono · 13-03-2011, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FaaipDeOiad

For me, nothing will come close to the '99 semi-final for choking, in a game of cricket, any form of the game. The run-out that forced the tie was bad enough, but when you realise that they still had two more balls to go after that to score one run with a high quality, set batsman on strike... it's just astonishing. If they just chose not to run and waited for another ball, they would have almost certainly won that world cup. The word is thrown around a lot in high level sport but the end of that game was the definition of a choke.

YouTube - Drama of 1999 world cup semi final

That was obviously a choke, but it was before they really had such a reputation, and also it was two players.

2007 was basically the whole team falling into the trap Australia set. They put the pressure on SA through Ponting's and Hayden's taunts about how SA bat slow and how they are intimidated by Australia. SA tried to change their game and be something they weren't, and completely capitulated. Was unbelievable.

Ponting calling Kallis a slow-coach is the best pre-match mind games I've ever seen.

13-03-2011, 12:40 AM	#32 (permalink)
smalishah84 Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: dxb Posts: 18,862	Good summary from Tooextracool __________________ And smalishah's avatar is the most classy one by far Jan certainly echoes the sentiments of CW Yeah we don't crap in the first world; most of us would actually have no idea what that was emanating from Ajmal's backside. Why isn't it roses and rainbows like what happens here? PEWS's retort to Ganeshran on Daemon's picture depicting Ajmal's excreta

13-03-2011, 06:03 AM	#42 (permalink)
FaaipDeOiad Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Australia Posts: 18,682	For me, nothing will come close to the '99 semi-final for choking, in a game of cricket, any form of the game. The run-out that forced the tie was bad enough, but when you realise that they still had two more balls to go after that to score one run with a high quality, set batsman on strike... it's just astonishing. If they just chose not to run and waited for another ball, they would have almost certainly won that world cup. The word is thrown around a lot in high level sport but the end of that game was the definition of a choke. YouTube - Drama of 1999 world cup semi final __________________ I know a place where a royal flush Can never beat a pair

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13-03-2011, 12:16 AM	#31 (permalink)
slip Cricket Spectator Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 26	They have to win a World Cup to remove the chokers tag.

13-03-2011, 03:31 AM	#33 (permalink)
zorax First Class Debutant Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 880	@ Topic Title - I certainly think so. This was the sort of situation South Africans are renowned for losing their heads in, 46 in 5 overs with on Du Plessis, Botha, Peterson and Steyn/Morkel to come. But Botha rose to the occasion, du Plessis kept his head, and Peterson blazed them home. Quite impressive.

13-03-2011, 05:19 AM	#35 (permalink)
vcs International Coach Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: India Posts: 10,305	Not really. Nothing worthy of drawing conclusions from, anyway.

13-03-2011, 05:21 AM	#36 (permalink)
Jono Request Your Custom Title Now! Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Virat Kohli Posts: 47,542	Unfortunately you haven't supported that with anything. All evidence suggests they bottle it. It's not just a myth that they don't perform in world tournaments. Would love to know their record in recent Champions Trophy tournaments as well.

13-03-2011, 05:26 AM	#38 (permalink)
vcs International Coach Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: India Posts: 10,305	How many WC knockout games have NZ won? Are they chokers as well? It's four or five games FFS. I do think there's an element of mental fragility about them under pressure, but you can't draw that conclusion based on a list of knockout results, you have to watch them play. FTR, SA won the inaugural Champions Trophy in '98 when Tendulkar scored that hundred against Australia and took 4 wickets in the same game. Beat WI in the final IIRC.

13-03-2011, 05:26 AM	#39 (permalink)
Jono Request Your Custom Title Now! Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Virat Kohli Posts: 47,542	Of course NZ have had the talent that South Africa have had in the last 10-12 years

13-03-2011, 09:08 AM	#44 (permalink)
Cruxdude45 Banned Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: India Posts: 2	Rsa only start playing in 1992.How many team have won WC since then

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