*Official* Match 13 - Netherlands v West Indies

[Dhoni_fan]

Originally Posted by Irish_Opener

Bangladesh are still poor tbh. We'd have beaten them easily if they hadn't been at home, tells you all you need to know.

If England can milk the Indian spinners they won't have trouble with Bangladesh.

Also, this game basically shows you the difference batting first makes. The Netherlands had no choice but to go for it from ball one and against international attacks they are destined to crumble. I guarantee they'd have scored over 220 or so batting first.

We will never know the answer to that now!

Sure there is pressure batitng 2nd against a big score, but it sometimes can coem off England had no choice, yesterday battign first I highly doubt they would have made 338

[marc71178]

Originally Posted by Dhoni_fan

A large reason for that was due to West Indies havign to field a 4th team around the world for a long period of time

Erm, that was 1 series, not 2 years.

[NasserFan207]

Originally Posted by Dhoni_fan

We will never know the answer to that now!

Sure there is pressure batitng 2nd against a big score, but it sometimes can coem off England had no choice, yesterday battign first I highly doubt they would have made 338

England have the ability and international experience to do that, teams like the netherlands don't.

[Jacknife]

Originally Posted by Dhoni_fan

What happens if Bangladesh v West Indies is rained out?

I think England losign to both is very possible Windies would be slight favourites against them and Desh a decent team at home!

WI won't be favorites against England and just because they beat a Dutch side, who were very poor today, doesn't change the fact they haven't won a one day series against any of the test nations in a long time.

[Jacknife]

Originally Posted by Dhoni_fan

We will never know the answer to that now!

Sure there is pressure batitng 2nd against a big score, but it sometimes can coem off England had no choice, yesterday battign first I highly doubt they would have made 338

How do you work that out, if they can score it batting second ,they can certainly score more batting first and what's your point with all this, if England scenarios.

[Burgey]

FMD Kieron Pollard is a massive unit.

[TT Boy]

Originally Posted by Spark

Nice of Kieron to show up to the party for once.

And it only took him 34 ODIs and 4 years to finally turn up. Shame it was against no mark opposition. Still averages a healthy 18 runs against test playing nations with the bat.

[GotSpin]

Originally Posted by shivfan

Wonderful hat-trick by Roach....

Sure was. Had a good feeling he was going to get it after he trapped in front the previous two melons.

Wasn't great competition but still some awesome bowling

[Dhoni_fan]

Originally Posted by marc71178

Erm, that was 1 series, not 2 years.

It was 2009 the Windies last won against a Test playing team and that was against England when they lost a tight series 3-2

And it was not one series they were at 4th strign it was the rest of that season including the ICC Champions Trophy.

You make any team play with a 4th string unit and they will struggle as the Windies did.

Sure West Indies lost 5-0 to SA last year a poor result, although SA are on of the favourites here but if you look closer at that match, that series could easily have been 4-1 in the Windies favour.

They are a good ODI side and in these conditions it will be a very touch game for England to win.

[Howe_zat]

Originally Posted by Dhoni_fan

It was 2009 the Windies last won against a Test playing team and that was against England when they lost a tight series 3-2

Right, but they still lost the series, which is what I said. I pointed out that they haven't won an ODI series against a Test-playing nation for nearly three years, while England have won serveral.

Originally Posted by Dhoni_fan

And it was not one series they were at 4th strign it was the rest of that season including the ICC Champions Trophy.

You make any team play with a 4th string unit and they will struggle as the Windies did.

Of course, which is why I'm not going to berate them for that season. But that series vs Bangladesh and the CT amounted to 6 matches in one season, which is not much considering we're talking about three years of performances.

(As an aside, I would hesitate to call that side 4th string, as it wasn't entirely different from the side playing now. Sammy, Smith, Roach, Thomas and Miller were all playing.)

Originally Posted by Dhoni_fan

Sure West Indies lost 5-0 to SA last year a poor result, although SA are on of the favourites here but if you look closer at that match, that series could easily have been 4-1 in the Windies favour.

They are a good ODI side and in these conditions it will be a very touch game for England to win.

You don't count "almost winning one match out of 5" as a good performance, and at the same time ignore England's winning streak over the same time period, which included a 2-1 series win in South Africa.

I think the Windies have a lot of talent in their side and are as good as anyone on their day, but evidently have performed as a team very rarely in the recent past. For that reason I would have England start the match as favourites, and by some distance.

[GotSpin]

England should be well favourites but I wouldn't count out the Windies.

One of the main problems for the Windies is both the injury count and a lack of depth. It's really hurt when bowlers like Taylor and Edwards then batsmen like Barath continually miss matches because of injuries without adequate replacements

[Dhoni_fan]

Originally Posted by Howe_zat

Right, but they still lost the series, which is what I said. I pointed out that they haven't won an ODI series against a Test-playing nation for nearly three years, while England have won serveral.



Of course, which is why I'm not going to berate them for that season. But that series vs Bangladesh and the CT amounted to 6 matches in one season, which is not much considering we're talking about three years of performances.

(As an aside, I would hesitate to call that side 4th string, as it wasn't entirely different from the side playing now. Sammy, Smith, Roach, Thomas and Miller were all playing.)



You don't count "almost winning one match out of 5" as a good performance, and at the same time ignore England's winning streak over the same time period, which included a 2-1 series win in South Africa.

I think the Windies have a lot of talent in their side and are as good as anyone on their day, but evidently have performed as a team very rarely in the recent past. For that reason I would have England start the match as favourites, and by some distance.

In that time England have also lost twice to Australia 6-1 which has been ignored.
Injuries to key West Indies players may well shift the momentum back to England, but this match could certainly go the West Indies way, IMHO there is not much between these sides in ODI

[marc71178]

Difference is those are the only 2 series losses (and both could be excused by the reserve team factor which you seem to be adamant is WI's excuse)

If the sides are really so close, how come one has won a lot more series in recent times than the other?

[Dhoni_fan]

Originally Posted by marc71178

Difference is those are the only 2 series losses (and both could be excused by the reserve team factor which you seem to be adamant is WI's excuse)

They were two emphathic series losses, Windies have hardly played many games in the last 2 years with a full strength team hardly more than 1 series so tough to compare form, England has been up and down West Indies hasnt had much to speak of but a lot of it was with a weakened team.

If the sides are really so close, how come one has won a lot more series in recent times than the other?

On the day this match will be to close to call the best side will win! Bravo out helps England cause but I still think in these conditions West Indies have a great shot at winning.

[TT Boy]

Originally Posted by Dhoni_fan

It was 2009 the Windies last won against a Test playing team and that was against England when they lost a tight series 3-2

And it was not one series they were at 4th strign it was the rest of that season including the ICC Champions Trophy.

You make any team play with a 4th string unit and they will struggle as the Windies did.

Sure West Indies lost 5-0 to SA last year a poor result, although SA are on of the favourites here but if you look closer at that match, that series could easily have been 4-1 in the Windies favour.

They are a good ODI side and in these conditions it will be a very touch game for England to win.

South Africa won the 1st ODI by over 60 run (D/L), the 3rd again by over 60 runs and the 4th by 7 wickets. Not sure how that adds up to 4-1 in the Windies favour...