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View Poll Results: Who will win this match?

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  • England

    10 71.43%
  • Netherlands

    4 28.57%
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Thread: *Official* Match 5 - England v Netherlands

  1. #451
    International Regular Stapel's Avatar
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    Darn, after 46 overs I really figured we had England on the brink of defeat. They needed over 8 runs an over. That is more than they managed in 2009's T20 during the last 3 overs. But then we had Nannes. And thta's it, we really were one or two fine bowlers short .

    Quote Originally Posted by outbreak View Post
    Anyone know why Mark Jonkman or his brother aren't in the netherlands squad? I thought Mark was ment to be a good bowler with abit of pace?
    He (well, it might have been his brother ) was sitting in a pub in The Hague yesterday. As was Lord's T20 hero Schiferli. In the end, we lacked such bowlers to really put England on the backfoot in the last 5 overs.

    As other have said, Mark Jonkman bends his elbow a tad bit too much. If I'm not mistaken, his brother has the same problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Has a 38.8 degree flexion on his bouncer. Must be one of the worst actions ever. It's like those news reports of the drunk driver: "Over two and a half times over the legal limit"
    One thing you should realise is that in The Netherlands itself and in associate matches, players and their actions are not even nearly as much debated, reviewed, monitored, suspended or altered as in Full Member's own backyard. I'm pretty sure Jonkman's action would have been addressed 5 years earlier, would he have been English. That's not an excuse, but simply an aspect of a sport that is only played by 5000 people (including women and expats).

  2. #452
    International Regular Stapel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178 View Post
    FC - 3665 @ 38.98 & 134 @ 35.08
    OD - 1772 @ 37.70 & 56 @ 34.07 (6.15 per over)
    T20 - 916 @ 27.75 & 23 @ 22.86 (7.30 per over)

    If that's what you call excellent then you have a very generous description of excellent.
    Actually, that is excellent! As a batsman, he consequently scores more runs per wicket than he concedes runs per wicket as a bowler in all formats. Very very few players manage that in the England domestic competitions.

  3. #453
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Just because his batting is higher than his bowling there's still no clear position he could take in a top International side - he's not that regular (or good enough) a bowler to be even a 5th bowler and his batting isn't good enough to be a top order batsman. A bits and pieces pick of the 90s maybe, but not nowadays.
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  4. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178 View Post
    Just because his batting is higher than his bowling there's still no clear position he could take in a top International side - he's not that regular (or good enough) a bowler to be even a 5th bowler and his batting isn't good enough to be a top order batsman. A bits and pieces pick of the 90s maybe, but not nowadays.
    Definitely looked better than a bits and pieces cricketer to me TBH. Better (or atleast no worse) than Collingwood as a bowler and a proper batsman as well. Not sure what he would average if he batted for one of the top nations playing mostly Test teams, but I'd estimate atleast 35. Hard to say on such a small sample though.


  5. #455
    Cricketer Of The Year four_or_six's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178 View Post
    Just because his batting is higher than his bowling there's still no clear position he could take in a top International side - he's not that regular (or good enough) a bowler to be even a 5th bowler and his batting isn't good enough to be a top order batsman. A bits and pieces pick of the 90s maybe, but not nowadays.
    His List A batting for Essex has been really good the last few seasons (averages 2008 - 43, 2009 - 48, 2010 - 54). You'd have thought that if he'd been English he may have had a chance.

  6. #456
    International Captain MW1304's Avatar
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    If he was English I'm sure he'd get picked up.

    But the real question is why South Africa haven't picked him up. Rich man's Albie Morkel.

  7. #457
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stapel View Post
    One thing you should realise is that in The Netherlands itself and in associate matches, players and their actions are not even nearly as much debated, reviewed, monitored, suspended or altered as in Full Member's own backyard. I'm pretty sure Jonkman's action would have been addressed 5 years earlier, would he have been English. That's not an excuse, but simply an aspect of a sport that is only played by 5000 people (including women and expats).
    Please don't think I was having a pop at the Dutch system, I think you chaps work wonders to be as competitive as you are given the minority status of the sport over there. I was just surprised the mean reading was so far over the tolerance limit.

    It's not like we're without form in that regard either, I always reserved my doubts about James Kirtley's action, hyperextension notwithstanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by four_or_six View Post
    His List A batting for Essex has been really good the last few seasons (averages 2008 - 43, 2009 - 48, 2010 - 54). You'd have thought that if he'd been English he may have had a chance.
    Lack of Englishness not usually that much of an impediment to selection, tbf.
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  8. #458
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Lack of Englishness not usually that much of an impediment to selection, tbf.
    I didn't mean that kind of English... just in the sense of wanting to play for us rather than SA.

  9. #459
    Hall of Fame Member TT Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MW1304 View Post
    If he was English I'm sure he'd get picked up.

    But the real question is why South Africa haven't picked him up. Rich man's Albie Morkel.
    You think? Albie is the better bowler, was at a time a genuine international class seamer and I don't think there is much between them with the bat. Just that Albie's never been given the opportunities up the order for South Africa. If RTD was available to South Africa he would be batting in the same position as Albie (7) and I know who I would take there.

  10. #460
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    Quote Originally Posted by TT Boy View Post
    You think? Albie is the better bowler, was at a time a genuine international class seamer and I don't think there is much between them with the bat. Just that Albie's never been given the opportunities up the order for South Africa. If RTD was available to South Africa he would be batting in the same position as Albie (7) and I know who I would take there.
    I'd guess he is. He'd have to give up his "domestic" status at Essex, but it's been done before: McLaren, Rudolph & Harris off the top of my head.

  11. #461
    Hall of Fame Member TT Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    I'd guess he is. He'd have to give up his "domestic" status at Essex, but it's been done before: McLaren, Rudolph & Harris off the top of my head.
    And play domestically in all formats.

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