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Thread: Biggest WC selection follies

  1. #16
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ash_A55 View Post
    Who hasnt got out against McGrath? He takes wickets for fun, so no suprise trying to sweep him led to a dismissal. Still the intent is terrific!
    Even I can go out there with intent though - it takes batting ability to score runs. Unfortunately, even though I think Loye was much less of a one-trick pony than people make out, he had a glaringly obvious technical weakness to the ball moving away from him, which as a right handed opening batsman, is the worst possible weakness to have.
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  2. #17
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ash_A55 View Post
    Who hasnt got out against McGrath? He takes wickets for fun, so no suprise trying to sweep him led to a dismissal. Still the intent is terrific!
    The point is about the brain - that sweep-to-a-seamer is a premeditated shot, so you can use your brain about when to play it.

    Fair enough, good idea to play it against the Johnsons and Lees, who bowl with a flatter trajectory, but when McGrath was bowling at him he should have put the shot in the locker. He's a more than capable player of the Pull-stroke - a far better idea against McGrath.

    This is only a side-issue compared to the already-mentioned large weakness against the away-moving ball, and more than ever against left-arm seamers. It shows up the fact that Loye is not really an opener at all, he's just a converted middle-order batsman. In the English domestic game there are far fewer capable awayswing bowlers than at ODI level, so the flaw can to an extent be got away with.
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  3. #18
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    But that ended-up making little difference to the outcome. England still lost loads of games for ages with Loye (and Nixon) in the side, with those 2 contributing little.
    Loads? They have played 7 times together and won 3 and lost 4. Since when was 4 games loads? Also given that the first 4 were their first ever games at international level it can only be expected that they will not be superstars in their debut games.

    Given you write Gough off as he bowled badly in his last 2 ODIs (Im not disagreeing with the point but the use of a tiny sample size to justify it) then the fact that Loye and Nixon have won in the last 3 ODIs they have played together should have you championing them.
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  4. #19
    Hall of Fame Member _Ed_'s Avatar
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    Carl Bulfin making the team.

    Oh, that was 1999? Still struggling to get over it.


  5. #20
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    Loads? They have played 7 times together and won 3 and lost 4. Since when was 4 games loads? Also given that the first 4 were their first ever games at international level it can only be expected that they will not be superstars in their debut games.

    Given you write Gough off as he bowled badly in his last 2 ODIs (Im not disagreeing with the point but the use of a tiny sample size to justify it) then the fact that Loye and Nixon have won in the last 3 ODIs they have played together should have you championing them.
    I certainly don't write Gough off based on those 2 games, at all - I think it perfectly possible he'd have made some improvement had he not got injured. I was crying-out for him to be selected - I was enjoying Bresnan and co being hammered all over by Tharanga, Jayasuriya and co. - 'cos it enhanced his chances of a recall.

    I honestly don't believe Loye and Nixon made as much difference as some have made-out, though. We started winning games when Australia weakened due, mainly, to injuries. IMO had Symonds not gone down when he did we'd have had no chance in the CBS finals. And equally, had Aus not treated the game that started our revival as the dead game it was, we'd probably not even have made it there ITFP.

  6. #21
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Ed_ View Post
    Carl Bulfin making the team.

    Oh, that was 1999? Still struggling to get over it.
    Even if it was only Scotland, was he genuinely picked ahead of Larsen, or was he injured? Can't remember.

    And in the same game, Matthew Hart got preferred to Matthew Horne...

  7. #22
    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    The point is about the brain - that sweep-to-a-seamer is a premeditated shot, so you can use your brain about when to play it.

    Fair enough, good idea to play it against the Johnsons and Lees, who bowl with a flatter trajectory, but when McGrath was bowling at him he should have put the shot in the locker. He's a more than capable player of the Pull-stroke - a far better idea against McGrath.

    This is only a side-issue compared to the already-mentioned large weakness against the away-moving ball, and more than ever against left-arm seamers. It shows up the fact that Loye is not really an opener at all, he's just a converted middle-order batsman. In the English domestic game there are far fewer capable awayswing bowlers than at ODI level, so the flaw can to an extent be got away with.
    maybe Loyes sweep would have been more effective on the lower slower wickets we have seen in this World Cup

    For me, Loye not going was and still is the biggest mistake England have made regarding this tournament
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  8. #23
    U19 Captain Ash_A55's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swervy View Post
    maybe Loyes sweep would have been more effective on the lower slower wickets we have seen in this World Cup

    For me, Loye not going was and still is the biggest mistake England have made regarding this tournament
    I totally agree, so he may get out cheap now and then. Vaughn is doing that every game recently and he is meant to be a master batsman with all the shots in his locker. It wouldnt hurt to try Loye at the world cup. But it's too little too late now.
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  9. #24
    Hall of Fame Member steds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James90 View Post
    No way Loye should be in there for Strauss or Joyce.
    Joyce isn't even English. He shouldn't be in the squad at all.

  10. #25
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steds View Post
    Joyce isn't even English. He shouldn't be in the squad at all.
    If that was a selection policy we would have been ****ed for decades

  11. #26
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steds View Post
    Joyce isn't even English. He shouldn't be in the squad at all.
    But he is a cricketer who wants to play for the team that is known as "England".

    Which is all that matters, ITBT. All else is mudblood-esque exclusionism.

  12. #27
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swervy View Post
    maybe Loyes sweep would have been more effective on the lower slower wickets we have seen in this World Cup

    For me, Loye not going was and still is the biggest mistake England have made regarding this tournament
    And maybe it wouldn't have been... you can't just make a call like that based on nothing but a load of failures (unless you manage to schedule all your ODIs on similar pitches).

    And TBH, there have been several surfaces we've played on that have been no different to those we got in Australia. And certainly none of them would have disguised his one glaring weakness - which, in case you noticed, wasn't actually the sweep - that got him into trouble just once.

  13. #28
    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    And maybe it wouldn't have been... you can't just make a call like that based on nothing but a load of failures (unless you manage to schedule all your ODIs on similar pitches).

    And TBH, there have been several surfaces we've played on that have been no different to those we got in Australia. And certainly none of them would have disguised his one glaring weakness - which, in case you noticed, wasn't actually the sweep - that got him into trouble just once.
    7 games Richard, thats all he has played for England!!!! We have all seen the success that he has had in the past, I am willing to make a judgement about Loye based on his career as opposed to 7 games played for England

    Maybe he wouldnt have been a success in the World Cup, but it wouldnt have been any worse than it is now, and at least there would have been a threat of a flying start from England. Loye has shown at domestic level that he can be effective, and when he gets going, he is devestating.

    And I have not seen any pitches in this world cup that is like your typical Australian pitch.

  14. #29
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    And I didn't seen many "typical" Australian pitches in the CBS.

    Actually, strike that, I did - they were all very flat with little seam, which is about all I've ever seen in a non-WACA Australian pitch. They didn't fit the outdated stereotype, though.

    IF Loye had been picked ahead of Strauss I honestly wouldn't have had too many complaints (there was no case for picking him ahead of Joyce at the time; Shaun Tait, not the England selectors, are at fault for his presence at the top of the order) but equally, Loye did very little of note in his 7 games, so he was hardly hard-done-by either.

    If Loye were younger I'd certainly hope to see him again, but as it is his time's now surely gone and lamenting that can't really change that too much.

    I seriously can't believe this is happening - you're championing a player based on his domestic career, I'm putting him down based on his international. The ultimate roles-reversed.

  15. #30
    International Coach KiWiNiNjA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Ed_ View Post
    Carl Bulfin making the team.

    Oh, that was 1999? Still struggling to get over it.
    Bulfin was only picked because of his dreads tbh

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