South Africa Thread

Richard · 09-03-2006, 07:56 AM

Well... there are 5 others so far.

aussie · 07-04-2006, 12:03 PM

expected 15 i'd say:

1. Smith
2. Boucher
3. Dippenaar
4. Gibbs
5. Kallis
6. De Villiers
7. Kemp
8. Prince
9. Pollock
10. Hall
11. Van der wath
12. Boje
13. Ntini
14. Nel
15. Telemachus or Langeveldt

Very powerful side, along with Pakistan are Australia's biggest challengers.

TT Boy · 07-04-2006, 03:59 PM

15 I would choose for WC.

1. Smith
2. Gibbs
3. de Villiers
4. Kallis
5. Pollock
6. McKenzie
7. van Der Wath
8. Dippenaar
9. Boucher
10. Ntini
11. Nel
12. Morkel
13. Boje
14. Hall
15. Langeveldt

aussie · 07-04-2006, 10:15 PM

How could you leave out Kemp?, plus i doubt wheter McKenzie will go instead of Prince sinc he has been no where near the side of late.

TT Boy · 08-04-2006, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussie

How could you leave out Kemp?, plus i doubt wheter McKenzie will go instead of Prince sinc he has been no where near the side of late.

Because Kemp can not bowl (anymore) and his usefulness only extends to the last ten overs against Mickey Mouse bowling attacks.

TT Boy · 08-04-2006, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussie

plus i doubt wheter McKenzie will go instead of Prince sinc he has been no where near the side of late.

Aussie, I said the 15 I would choose, McKenzie probably has no chance of playing but I rate him more than Prince, Rudolph, Kemp and co.

Richard · 08-04-2006, 04:55 AM

Frankly, I still hope we might see a Smith-Gibbs opening partnership - for the last time - this Cup. de Villiers has plenty of time, he doesn't need to be the finished act yet (and isn't - in ODIs at least).
I've always thought Kallis was best utilised at three and it's best, for me, if he nails down a certain place as soon as.
I simply can't see a place for both Kallis and Dippenaar in the same side. Boeta is a very, very fine run-scorer, and while he can score quickly he just doesn't do it often enough. We can afford to have 1 player striking at 70, but I don't think we can afford 2. At least, not where there are faster-scoring options elsewhere. Kallis, too, is better equipped to up the pace where neccessary.
Neil McKenzie is certainly not finished in my mind. Currently his best chances look like getting a place in the Test side, but every time Prince looks like he's on the road to being dropped he always comes-up with something.
Jacques Rudolph, too, simply must be in the picture. He's always scored runs for fun in one-day cricket, and it'd be foolish to leave him out of the picture.
Clearly, the three front-line seamers are all assured of a place. Nonetheless, I always have worries about Nel and Ntini, good as they can be - both, especially in one-dayers, have too many off-days. Kallis must be prepared to bowl 10 overs, even if he goes for plenty.
Hall is looking increasingly assured of a place, what with his recent record. Equally, there's no doubt over the wicketkeeper's place.
I'm not completely sure when South Africa's next ODI cricket is. It's a bit of a worry, really, if there's nothing for a long time, because they really IMO need to get back to normality quickly, after THAT game. It'll do no-one any good to rest on that for a long time.
Clearly, there needs to be ONE spinner in the squad, and that 1 spinner I'd pick would be Boje. I'd not have him pencilled-in for an automatic spot, but slow and turning pitches in West Indies are not unusual and that basis needs to be covered.
I'd say anyone who writes-off Justin Kemp is a fool. He may have struggled badly against the Sri Lankans but the fact is these days he looks like a batsman, rather than just a lower-order swinger. I'd back him to score plenty of runs on decent pitches against most bowling-attacks.
At present I'd go...
Smith
Gibbs
Kallis
McKenzie
Rudolph
Kemp
Hall
Boucher
Pollock
Ntini
Nel
With the last 2 rabbits, there must be plenty of depth in the batting. The one shame I find is that there now seems no chance at all left of Klusener having one last fling with ODIs in West Indies. A shame, as he actually bowled well on his most recent appearence, and I think his bowling could be very useful in West Indies, while his batting might be too.

TT Boy · 08-04-2006, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

I'd say anyone who writes-off Justin Kemp is a fool. He may have struggled badly against the Sri Lankans but the fact is these days he looks like a batsman, rather than just a lower-order swinger. I'd back him to score plenty of runs on decent pitches against most bowling-attacks.
.

I must be a fool then because Kemp can not only not play pace, seen in his troubles of getting away Brett Lee and even Stuart Clark but Kemp has to be the worst player of spin in South Africa. Sure he is a big hitter but so is Roger Telemachus does not mean he should bat at six either, he does not have the technique to bat so high (can not play the short ball, bouncy West Indian wickets will trouble him) and because his bowling has gone to pot he should not be selected.

aussie · 08-04-2006, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TT Boy

Because Kemp can not bowl (anymore) and his usefulness only extends to the last ten overs against Mickey Mouse bowling attacks.

you Kemp has lost his effectiveness as a bowler, but he still does bowl. He has been very consistent since he came back into the team vs ENG in 2005, i'd be surprised if he didn't go to the world cup

Richard · 11-04-2006, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TT Boy

I must be a fool then because Kemp can not only not play pace, seen in his troubles of getting away Brett Lee and even Stuart Clark but Kemp has to be the worst player of spin in South Africa. Sure he is a big hitter but so is Roger Telemachus does not mean he should bat at six either, he does not have the technique to bat so high (can not play the short ball, bouncy West Indian wickets will trouble him) and because his bowling has gone to pot he should not be selected.

Well for one thing, West Indian pitches don't tend to be the most bouncy around. Least, maybe.
I can think of plenty of worse players of spin in South Africa - Kemp, I might remind you, kept Shane Warne at bay for something like 150 deliveries on a turning pitch at The WACA not so long ago. I'd back Kemp to get away most seamers, too.

TT Boy · 12-04-2006, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

Well for one thing, West Indian pitches don't tend to be the most bouncy around. Least, maybe.
I can think of plenty of worse players of spin in South Africa - Kemp, I might remind you, kept Shane Warne at bay for something like 150 deliveries on a turning pitch at The WACA not so long ago. I'd back Kemp to get away most seamers, too.

Personally I can not think of worse players of spin in South Africa, maybe van der Wath who looked just as clueless as Kemp against Murali and Bandara. Kemp other than the his prolonged second innings at Perth (where he did not face 150 deliverers of spin, more like 80) he has struggled badly against spin. Mickey Mouse bowlers, the Kabir Ali's and James Anderson's of this world, he will own but any bowler with a decent brain, yorker or bouncer will have Kemp out pretty easily.

Richard · 12-04-2006, 06:44 AM

Yorker maybe, never seen him troubled much by Bouncers.
Kemp, incidentally, hasn't faced Anderson in his ODI career.
A few SA batsmen who are at least equally bad against spin... McKenzie, AB de Villiers, Andrew Hall, Ashwell Prince, Justin Ontong.

TT Boy · 12-04-2006, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

Yorker maybe, never seen him troubled much by Bouncers.
Kemp, incidentally, hasn't faced Anderson in his ODI career.
A few SA batsmen who are at least equally bad against spin... McKenzie, AB de Villiers, Andrew Hall, Ashwell Prince, Justin Ontong.

The bouncer was used sporadically but effectively by the Australians against Kemp in the VB series and he never looked like comfortable against it, holed out a few times to deep fine leg.

Ashwell Prince is a funny one because come the end of the Australian series, Warne was not getting him out, or really troubling him. Prince was just getting himself out, by dancing down the wicket and batting over aggressively, he lost the plot so to speak and Warne's presence not actual performances was the factor. Ontong have not seen much of him though his record suggest he does like getting out to spin. McKenzie has improved no end and AB's performance against spin minus Warne have not been that bad, just a judgement thing with the kid. Whilst Andrew Hall is not a particularly good player of anything so that's a no brainier.

Richard · 12-04-2006, 08:58 AM

McKenzie has improved no end? Delighted to hear it, and all, have always liked him, but until we see some demonstration it's not much use.
Seriously, though - how much spin of any quality has ABdeV faced in his career apart from Warne? None so far as I can see.

TT Boy · 12-04-2006, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

Seriously, though - how much spin of any quality has ABdeV faced in his career apart from Warne? None so far as I can see.

Chirs Gayle...

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
CW XI 101 : The Road To The Present	Mr Mxyzptlk	Statistics and Records	75	26-04-2006 09:35 PM
South Africa bigger threat to Australia than England	EnglishRose	Cricket Chat	81	13-07-2005 10:29 AM
Official South Africa in England Thread	Rik	Cricket Chat	1008	17-09-2003 06:01 PM

07-04-2006, 12:03 PM	#2 (permalink)
aussie Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Cricket Posts: 16,845	expected 15 i'd say: 1. Smith 2. Boucher 3. Dippenaar 4. Gibbs 5. Kallis 6. De Villiers 7. Kemp 8. Prince 9. Pollock 10. Hall 11. Van der wath 12. Boje 13. Ntini 14. Nel 15. Telemachus or Langeveldt Very powerful side, along with Pakistan are Australia's biggest challengers.

07-04-2006, 03:59 PM	#3 (permalink)
TT Boy Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: . Posts: 16,321	15 I would choose for WC. 1. Smith 2. Gibbs 3. de Villiers 4. Kallis 5. Pollock 6. McKenzie 7. van Der Wath 8. Dippenaar 9. Boucher 10. Ntini 11. Nel 12. Morkel 13. Boje 14. Hall 15. Langeveldt

07-04-2006, 10:15 PM	#4 (permalink)
aussie Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Cricket Posts: 16,845	How could you leave out Kemp?, plus i doubt wheter McKenzie will go instead of Prince sinc he has been no where near the side of late.

08-04-2006, 04:55 AM	#7 (permalink)
Richard Cricket Web Staff Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: 2005 Posts: 80,407	Frankly, I still hope we might see a Smith-Gibbs opening partnership - for the last time - this Cup. de Villiers has plenty of time, he doesn't need to be the finished act yet (and isn't - in ODIs at least). I've always thought Kallis was best utilised at three and it's best, for me, if he nails down a certain place as soon as. I simply can't see a place for both Kallis and Dippenaar in the same side. Boeta is a very, very fine run-scorer, and while he can score quickly he just doesn't do it often enough. We can afford to have 1 player striking at 70, but I don't think we can afford 2. At least, not where there are faster-scoring options elsewhere. Kallis, too, is better equipped to up the pace where neccessary. Neil McKenzie is certainly not finished in my mind. Currently his best chances look like getting a place in the Test side, but every time Prince looks like he's on the road to being dropped he always comes-up with something. Jacques Rudolph, too, simply must be in the picture. He's always scored runs for fun in one-day cricket, and it'd be foolish to leave him out of the picture. Clearly, the three front-line seamers are all assured of a place. Nonetheless, I always have worries about Nel and Ntini, good as they can be - both, especially in one-dayers, have too many off-days. Kallis must be prepared to bowl 10 overs, even if he goes for plenty. Hall is looking increasingly assured of a place, what with his recent record. Equally, there's no doubt over the wicketkeeper's place. I'm not completely sure when South Africa's next ODI cricket is. It's a bit of a worry, really, if there's nothing for a long time, because they really IMO need to get back to normality quickly, after THAT game. It'll do no-one any good to rest on that for a long time. Clearly, there needs to be ONE spinner in the squad, and that 1 spinner I'd pick would be Boje. I'd not have him pencilled-in for an automatic spot, but slow and turning pitches in West Indies are not unusual and that basis needs to be covered. I'd say anyone who writes-off Justin Kemp is a fool. He may have struggled badly against the Sri Lankans but the fact is these days he looks like a batsman, rather than just a lower-order swinger. I'd back him to score plenty of runs on decent pitches against most bowling-attacks. At present I'd go... Smith Gibbs Kallis McKenzie Rudolph Kemp Hall Boucher Pollock Ntini Nel With the last 2 rabbits, there must be plenty of depth in the batting. The one shame I find is that there now seems no chance at all left of Klusener having one last fling with ODIs in West Indies. A shame, as he actually bowled well on his most recent appearence, and I think his bowling could be very useful in West Indies, while his batting might be too.

12-04-2006, 06:44 AM	#12 (permalink)
Richard Cricket Web Staff Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: 2005 Posts: 80,407	Yorker maybe, never seen him troubled much by Bouncers. Kemp, incidentally, hasn't faced Anderson in his ODI career. A few SA batsmen who are at least equally bad against spin... McKenzie, AB de Villiers, Andrew Hall, Ashwell Prince, Justin Ontong.

12-04-2006, 08:58 AM	#14 (permalink)
Richard Cricket Web Staff Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: 2005 Posts: 80,407	McKenzie has improved no end? Delighted to hear it, and all, have always liked him, but until we see some demonstration it's not much use. Seriously, though - how much spin of any quality has ABdeV faced in his career apart from Warne? None so far as I can see.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)