Building Indian team for the 2007 world cup

[Arjun]

AA is still among the better ODI bowlers in India. And since when have yorkers and slower ones become "lucky" deliveries? He may not be as good as a few others, but I will rather have AA and Zak bowling at the death than Pathan and Balaji and others.

• That he's lucky to be one of India's better ODI bowlers shows how weak India's ODI bowling has been.
• When it's this little man involved, obviously there's a lot of luck involved– batting errors or uneven bounce or even goofy umpires.
• Balaji's gone, and Zaheer's out of energy, so that's a very low benchmark.
• Is Agarkar even as good as his opposite number in the final overs? Not even close!

Honestly, you don't expect him to suddenly turn into someone world-class after five years of luckily average performances, do you? You can replace him with some young reserve and you won't miss much.

 

[Arjun]

Now let's look at the Greg Chappell experiments. Some wags on another forum (half the discussions there don't deserve to be on a cricket forum at all) think he's the root cause of all the problems plaguing Indian cricket, but let's look at these freak experiments from all sides.

WORKS LIKE A CHARM

• Irfan Pathan batting in the top six– This adds one more dimension to the Indian side. Not only do you have a bowler with some value addition in the team, but also one more big-hitting option, so Sachin (especially) and Sehwag can breathe easy, while Dhoni now has a partner.
• Dhoni batting higher up– He's more than just a value-add player– he's a talented batsman, and very powerful. So they made the best use of his batting ability, and you got that massive 180+ score against the Lankans
• Kaif in the top three– He finished one series with an average of 92 and seems a good fit there. Much better than at sevenm, where he (like every other batsman) was a misfit
• The fifth arm– On a 'good, full-strength team' day, Zaheer and RP Singh would have sat out, replaced by Agarkar and a sixth batsman. But in the Faislabad Test, they did make the side, and they took more wickets than the more certain picks.

HAS HE GONE MAD?

• That's no way to treat your openers!– Gautam Gambhir combines well with Sehwag and the two posted several 50+ partnerships at a very good strike rate. Wasim Jaffer was running red-hot before the series. Both scored over 50 and made big opening stands in a tour match. Yet, both were benched and the team opened with Dravid and Laxman (in one match). The weaknesses of this plan were hidden by sub-par bowling and flat pitches, but in Karachi, it came undone.
• Rest all your frontliners?– After the Indians won the ODI series against the Lankans, they rested Tendulkar, Irfan and Bhajji for one match. Predictably, the second-in-command were simply not up to it. Some of them could have been rested, couldn't they?

TRY THIS OUT:

• Give your openers a fair try– Not just in Tests, but also in ODI's, go in for your best opening partnership, rather than separate pairs in either form.
• New opening striker– They can afford to try out a new strike bowler, who's very aggressive and also fast.
• More value addition– They can pick a full-time all-rounder from the domestic scene, purely for value addition, at least in ODI's– like Shahid Afridi or Justin Kemp or even Ashley Giles

DON'T TOUCH

• Don't drop your young pace hopes– They've just started their international careers and need a long stretch at the top level to prove themselves.
• Turbanator still has it– There may be doubts expressed about Harbhajan's performances, especially away fro India, but he's still a more productive bowler than all the so-called pace options in the Indian side, especially the selectors' five favourites.
• Prince from Punjab can hang on– Yuvraj is in the form of his life, and he's got a wide array of strokes, and when on song, he is destructive. Add to that, his excellent fielding– and that's not considering his bowling, which you don't need. He's worth a try as one of the top five, and not just an extra batsman to provide a nonexistent, often useless run-cushion

 

[Arjun]

Now add to that the effect he's had on two of India's younger players. Yuvraj has averaged over 53 in his last 25 ODI's, while his Test average since Chappell entered is also over 50. Even more remarkable (given the Woolmer effect on Afridi) is Irfan's Chappell-era record, who's a much improved player now. Not only has his bowling average in ODI's gone under 24, his batting average (with 3 scores over 50) is over 34, with a strike rate over 90! His Test batting average is also a revelation, but we'd also like to see that Test bowling average come down.

 

[TIF]

Agarkar is not a useful bowler at all. India, has many bowlers better than Agarkar. As for Agarkar, he never looks like taking the wickets himself and he gets most of his wickets as caught in the outfield. Also, he gets smashed for lots of runs and just due to 1 or 2 good performances, remains in the team. His bowling record in finals and important matches has been very poor at over 50 bowling average. Also, he did not play a single match in the World cup 2003 and still the Indian pace bowlers did well due to Zaheer, Nehra and Srinath.

Also, Zaheer is not a bad bowler, but his bowling has been very underrated. Zaheer, is more of an aggressive bowler and looks like taking wickets. He dismissed Inzamam very early and never looked like going for too many runs. Zaheer, has been one of the better bowlers for India in this series.

Sree Santh, needs to bowl at line and length alongwith pace. When he focused only on pace in the earlier overs in the last match, he went for runs but later on, when he focused more on line and length, it became difficult to score runs off him.

 

[marc71178]

I cant understand the meaning of AAAS. Some say that he has been very much in and out of the Indian team and is a special player, then about starting a ZKAS(Zaheer Khan Appreciation Society) as Zaheer Khan has also been very much in and out of the Indian team. How about starting a VLAS(VVS Laxman Appreciation Society) as VVS Laxman has also been very much in and out of the team. Just like Ajit Agarkar, even Zaheer Khan and VVS Laxman have come back and been dropped from the Indian team, so do you think that ZKAS and VLAS should be started?

You clearly haven't even looked into the AAAS if that's what you think it is based on.

 

[Arjun]

A few highlights of Sreesanth's bowling–

• He used the bouncer too good effect
• He got a good angle across the crease and directed a bouncer at Yousuf
• He followed that up with a slower delivery that was tapped straight down
• A few edges he got went straight to the boundary through slips, where no fielders stood
• Unlike Zaheer and Agarkar, who came in at an easy pace, he came running in fiercely and his action was very fast

The right raw material......but needs to be more accurate.

 

[Jungle Jumbo]

WORKS LIKE A CHARM
Irfan Pathan batting in the top six– This adds one more dimension to the Indian side. Not only do you have a bowler with some value addition in the team, but also one more big-hitting option, so Sachin (especially) and Sehwag can breathe easy, while Dhoni now has a partner.
Dhoni batting higher up– He's more than just a value-add player– he's a talented batsman, and very powerful. So they made the best use of his batting ability, and you got that massive 180+ score against the Lankans
Kaif in the top three– He finished one series with an average of 92 and seems a good fit there. Much better than at sevenm, where he (like every other batsman) was a misfit
The fifth arm– On a 'good, full-strength team' day, Zaheer and RP Singh would have sat out, replaced by Agarkar and a sixth batsman. But in the Faislabad Test, they did make the side, and they took more wickets than the more certain picks.
HAS HE GONE MAD?
That's no way to treat your openers!– Gautam Gambhir combines well with Sehwag and the two posted several 50+ partnerships at a very good strike rate. Wasim Jaffer was running red-hot before the series. Both scored over 50 and made big opening stands in a tour match. Yet, both were benched and the team opened with Dravid and Laxman (in one match). The weaknesses of this plan were hidden by sub-par bowling and flat pitches, but in Karachi, it came undone.
Rest all your frontliners?– After the Indians won the ODI series against the Lankans, they rested Tendulkar, Irfan and Bhajji for one match. Predictably, the second-in-command were simply not up to it. Some of them could have been rested, couldn't they?

TRY THIS OUT:
Give your openers a fair try– Not just in Tests, but also in ODI's, go in for your best opening partnership, rather than separate pairs in either form.
New opening striker– They can afford to try out a new strike bowler, who's very aggressive and also fast.
More value addition– They can pick a full-time all-rounder from the domestic scene, purely for value addition, at least in ODI's– like Shahid Afridi or Justin Kemp or even Ashley Giles

I can see many of the points you are making, but something doesn't quite add up...

You suggest, above, that you would like to see Kaif at 3, Pathan in the top 6, a stable opening pair, Dhoni higher up the order, Yuvraj in top 5

So...

1 Sehwag
2 Tendulkar
3 Kaif
4 Dravid
5 Yuvraj
6 Pathan
7 Dhoni (or Dhoni/Pathan)
8 <bowler> You also want this player to be a 'value addition' player
9 <bowler>
10 <bowler>
11 <bowler>

But you also want the same opening partnership for ODIs as Tests, so if, let us say Gambhir and Sehwag is your pair, then you're going to have to lose a bowler, or drop a batsman.

1 Gambhir
2 Sehwag
3 Kaif
4 Tendulkar
5 Dravid
6 Yuvraj
7 Pathan
8 Dhoni
9 'value addition'
10 <spinner>
11 <fast bowler>

Now Pathan and Dhoni are down at the bottom, with time to influence the game.

My suggestion...

1 Sehwag
2 Tendulkar (Tried and tested opening pair, both too dangerous to bat lower down)
3 Dravid (IMO can anchor the innings, needs as much time to influence innings)
4 Kaif (Moderate, accumulating batsman)
5 Yuvraj (As you say, a dangerous player)
6 Dhoni
7 Pathan
8 Agarkar OR Munaf
9 Harbhajan
10, 11 two of: Sreesanth, RP Singh, Zaheer Khan, VRV Singh

Raina as backup batsman or SuperSub (if it still exists)

 

[adharcric]

Agarkar definitely gets a lot of wickets due to the outfielders help and in the late overs. He seems to be the best in our team at getting the tailenders out. I have to admit, his yorker is decent these days and for some reason, he bowls at better pace to the tail than to the specialist batsmen ... confounds me.

 

[alternative]

any chance of RS Sodhi.. last time i heard he was playing excellent cricket..

 

[Jono]

Damn, now I have the whole AAAS after me, and a curse on me as well.

Anyway I'm beginning to think RP Singh is heavily underrated by some Indian supporters. There's all this talk about Sreesanth, Munaf Patel and VR Singh, which is fine as they are young fast bowlers with decent pace, and then there are discussions about whether Zaheer and/or AA deserve to stay in the team. Well RP Singh has done absolutely nothing wrong in his limited opportunities playing for the Indian ODI team, and I don't even understand why he was left out of the first 2 ODIs against Pakistan with AA and Zaheer ahead of him.

Right now I reckon the bext XI (with a fully fit Harbhajan) is:

1.Sehwag
2.Tendulkar
3.Dravid/Kaif
4.Dravid/Kaif
5.Yuvraj
6.Dhoni
7.Pathan
8.Harbhajan
9.RP Singh
10.AA/Zaheer/Sreesanth/Munaf Patel/VR Singh (If AA or Zaheer they bat higher than RP Singh I guess)
11.AA/Zaheer/Sreesanth/Munaf Patel/VR Singh (If AA or Zaheer they bat higher than RP Singh I guess)
Super-Sub: Suresh Raina or Ramesh Powar (However if Harbhajan isn't fit I'd probably play him in the XI. India going in without a specialist spinner just isn't India )

 

[Arjun]

any chance of RS Sodhi.. last time i heard he was playing excellent cricket..

Reetinder Sodhi made the national team as an all-rounder. His lack of muscle was a major weakness, because of which he couldn't translate potential into performance. He improved a lot under his new Ranji coach, Intikhab Alam– the same who coached Pakistan to World Cup victory. Now, however, he plays as a specialist batsman, so his chances of making the Indian team are virtually nil– unless he starts bowling again as he did in the past.

 

[Arjun]

Damn, now I have the whole AAAS after me, and a curse on me as well.

Anyway I'm beginning to think RP Singh is heavily underrated by some Indian supporters. There's all this talk about Sreesanth, Munaf Patel and VR Singh, which is fine as they are young fast bowlers with decent pace, and then there are discussions about whether Zaheer and/or AA deserve to stay in the team. Well RP Singh has done absolutely nothing wrong in his limited opportunities playing for the Indian ODI team, and I don't even understand why he was left out of the first 2 ODIs against Pakistan with AA and Zaheer ahead of him.

Right now I reckon the bext XI (with a fully fit Harbhajan) is:

1.Sehwag
2.Tendulkar
3.Dravid/Kaif
4.Dravid/Kaif
5.Yuvraj
6.Dhoni
7.Pathan
8.Harbhajan
9.RP Singh
10.AA/Zaheer/Sreesanth/Munaf Patel/VR Singh (If AA or Zaheer they bat higher than RP Singh I guess)
11.AA/Zaheer/Sreesanth/Munaf Patel/VR Singh (If AA or Zaheer they bat higher than RP Singh I guess)
Super-Sub: Suresh Raina or Ramesh Powar (However if Harbhajan isn't fit I'd probably play him in the XI. India going in without a specialist spinner just isn't India )

RP Singh is doing just fine as a change seamer. However, the Indian team needs someone who can bowl fast. Real FAST. This man, in combination with Irfan and RP Singh, will form a competent seam attack in ODI's, and maybe a fourth seamer can be added. That fourth seamer should be one who can also score more than a few runs– Munaf Patel or Pravin Kumar for instance– or pick a spinner who can bat. The fifth bowler has to be a specialist spinner.

They shoudl forget about that stupid-sub nonsense. If they pick the wrong super-sub for the wrong time, it can sink them. They should have five specilaist batsmen, the keeper, two bowlers who can also bat, and three specialist bowlers. You WON'T NEED a stupid-sub then. Even if you do, keep minimum five bowling options and batting till eight, and then pick one specialist batsman or bowler as a fall guy.

 

[silentstriker]

RP Singh is doing just fine as a change seamer. However, the Indian team needs someone who can bowl fast. Real FAST. This man, in combination with Irfan and RP Singh, will form a competent seam attack in ODI's, and maybe a fourth seamer can be added. That fourth seamer should be one who can also score more than a few runs– Munaf Patel or Pravin Kumar for instance– or pick a spinner who can bat. The fifth bowler has to be a specialist spinner.

They shoudl forget about that stupid-sub nonsense. If they pick the wrong super-sub for the wrong time, it can sink them. They should have five specilaist batsmen, the keeper, two bowlers who can also bat, and three specialist bowlers. You WON'T NEED a stupid-sub then. Even if you do, keep minimum five bowling options and batting till eight, and then pick one specialist batsman or bowler as a fall guy.

Agreed.

There has to be ONE bowler in India who can consistantly bowl 145+. In a country of 1 billion people, I am at a loss for an explanation at our frontline bowlers not topping 130 on a good day.


And don't even get me started on Pathan, he has been taking wickets the last two ODI's but his speed has been in the 120's. PATHAN, YOU ARE NOT SAURAV GANGULY. PLEASE STOP TRYING TO DUPLICATE HIS PACE.

 

[Arjun]

Agreed.

There has to be ONE bowler in India who can consistantly bowl 145+. In a country of 1 billion people, I am at a loss for an explanation at our frontline bowlers not topping 130 on a good day.


And don't even get me started on Pathan, he has been taking wickets the last two ODI's but his speed has been in the 120's. PATHAN, YOU ARE NOT SAURAV GANGULY. PLEASE STOP TRYING TO DUPLICATE HIS PACE.

The name's Singh. Vikram Rajvir Singh.

He may not be that fast, but he's definitely very aggressive. He thinks like Shoaib Akhtar. Hopefully Irfan will too.

 

[Arjun]

Anyone who thinks Sreesanth has been bowling rubbish hasn't been watching the matches he's played. Not only does he rush in fiercely each time, he's also got several edges ot slips, but either there are no fielders, or there are misfits placed in slips.

 

[silentstriker]

Also, an important consideration is the wicket. What are the wickets like in West Indies?


/As a sidenote, I am so glad the games will be played in the WI. This way, I don't have to stay up all night to watch!

 

[Arjun]

As a sidenote, I am so glad the games will be played in the WI. This way, I don't have to stay up all night to watch!

Because you live in the US! We in India have to sit up and watch!!!

 

[silentstriker]

Because you live in the US! We in India have to sit up and watch!!!

Hey stop whining. You get games for cheap in India, I have to pay in excess of us $500/year AND go to work bleary eyed the next day in virtually every match.

 

[marc71178]

Damn, now I have the whole AAAS after me, and a curse on me as well.

You can remove the curse by a week of singing the great one's praises...

 

[TIF]

Also, an important consideration is the wicket. What are the wickets like in West Indies?


/As a sidenote, I am so glad the games will be played in the WI. This way, I don't have to stay up all night to watch!

The wickets in West Indies arent too spin-friendly and the conditions are not the same as in India or Sri Lanka. Also, there is a possiblity of getting flat wickets in West Indies. Some players like Yuvraj Singh might find it a bit easy to play in West Indies.

Also, for people living in the sub-continent will have to stay up all night to watch the matches as the matches in West Indies usually start at around 8pm here in the night and you will have to wake up all the way till 3-4 am in the morning to watch the matches live.

If West Indies, starts to host day-night matches, then they will be starting somewhere around midnight finshing at around 8 am in the morning, so that will be strange timings, however the real cricket crazy people wont mind it at all