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View Poll Results: What should the outcome be?

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  • The situation's OK - if it were me I'd go

    5 25.00%
  • They should be allowed to miss, but share points

    12 60.00%
  • If they choose to not play, they should forfeit the points

    0 0%
  • Does it really matter as Aus will win the World Cup regardless

    3 15.00%
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Thread: *Official* The Zimbabwe Situation

  1. #1
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    The Zimbabwe Situation

    With the political situation as it is at the moment, what do you think should happen with the teams playing / refusing to play in Zimbabwe?
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  2. #2
    Rik
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    I was speaking to a guy who was born in Zimbabwe and goes there sometimes, and he says that it's safe in Harare but anywhere else including Bulawayo is dangerous. I doubt a Cricket Team would be attacked but you never know. It's not safe and I wouldn't go.
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  3. #3
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Top_Cat's Avatar
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    The circket world should shun Zimbabwe as they did the South Africans during the Apartheid Movement's height and not tour there. I'm dumbfounded as to how the ICC can choose to ignore the politics of the situation. You have in power an undemocratic, megalomaniacal dictator like Robert Mugabe and we can somehow turn a blind eye to play a game or two there?

    By lending legitimacy to the relations between the ICC and the Zimbabwean government you lend legitimacy to the government itself which it did not earn by a vote of the people. The world already tried to just ignore what was going on in a country when Germany hosted the 1936 games in Berlin and look what happened when Hitler was allowed to continue his governance?

    Put it this way; would any team have considered touring Afghanistan if the Taliban were still in power and the World Cup was to be held there? Most importantly, could anyone really turn a blind eye to what was happening there purely to play a series of games?

  4. #4
    Rik
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    Yeah good point TC, you wouldn't have anyone going to Iraq if they held the World Cup either!


  5. #5
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Is there precedent in the 96 World Cup?

  6. #6
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Top_Cat's Avatar
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    A precedent for what?

  7. #7
    Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Neil Pickup's Avatar
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    I'm going to have to disagree with you guys here.

    I can see there being no way that Mugabe would allow anything to happen to any visiting Cricket team, so safety isn't a real issue here. You're in as much danger anywhere in South Africa as you would be in Zimbabwe, so I don't think that's an issue.

    The political/moral problems are another issue entirely. We have a dodgy election result, but so did the USA. Hence, that's not a valid point in itself.

    Human rights abuses? The Olympic Games are in Beijing in 2008, and I think that comparing ZANU-PF to the Taleban and Hitler is a little extreme as well.

    Look at it from the Zimbabwean people's point of view. Sanctions don't work. Depriving them of the Cricket World Cup until 2023 won't help much.
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  8. #8
    Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Neil Pickup's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Top_Cat
    A precedent for what?
    Australia and NZ (I think) didn't play in Sri Lanka due to safety concerns because of the ongoing Tamil-Sinhalese conflict.

    That was safety, this is politics. The precedent is the fact that you're not getting the points if you don't play, and in England's case, we most likely go out.

  9. #9
    Rik
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    Just think about it, Mugabe is a dictator, just like Hitler and Saddam. Cricket is a game, it should not take precedence over such desisions in my opinion. Especially if human safety is concerned.
    Last edited by Rik; 29-12-2002 at 04:30 PM.

  10. #10
    Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Neil Pickup's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Rik
    Just think about it, Mugabe is a dictator, just like Hitler and Saddam. Cricket is a game, it should not take precedence over such desisions in my opinion.
    And how does isolating him help?

    Nationalist Propaganda will be easy enough to manufacture and consolidate his position in charge.

    The best way is to go out there and play them off the park.

  11. #11
    Rik
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    Originally posted by Neil Pickup
    And how does isolating him help?

    Nationalist Propaganda will be easy enough to manufacture and consolidate his position in charge.

    The best way is to go out there and play them off the park.
    The best way is to not let the guy think that the whole world will allow him to get away with it. Saying "We will not come to your country" will not sit well with him.

  12. #12
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Top_Cat's Avatar
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    The political/moral problems are another issue entirely. We have a dodgy election result, but so did the USA. Hence, that's not a valid point in itself.
    The situations are only analogous on a few levels. A general comment like 'both elections were dodgy' is completely outweighed by the human rights abuses which go on against the people in Zimbabwe, and will continue to go on whilst we pretend it doesn't happen. And to my mind, a sport's governing body must at least listen to the governments which represent the teams in their charter. I just don't see how anyone can justify going to a country like that to play a sport and completely disregard the politics of the current environment saying it has 'nothing to do with us'. As I said, you indirectly lend credibility to the government which does a lot to solidify its position in power.

    If everyone made it clear they were disgusted by his government and withdrew something like sporting teams from touring there, Mugabe could claim a racial bias to his people but it won't hold for long. An inconsistent position such is happening right now could generate propaganda in finitum if Mugabe so desires. I mean, you could push the whole "They're quite happy to play games with us but not trade with us" line for years to come.

    Believe me, I'm no fan of the US government but then the US government isn't quite as culpable in human rights abuses as Mugabe is on their own soil at least. Elsewhere, it's a different story of course...............

    And how does isolating him help?

    Nationalist Propaganda will be easy enough to manufacture and consolidate his position in charge.
    Maybe. But how can a government on one hand condemn Zimbabwe's current government and then be quite happy to send some sportsmen there? It's about maintaining a consistent position too. Touring in the current political situation does more to enhance Mugabe's position than not.

    Somehow we need to send a message to Zimbabwe that we're not happy with the current government and for good reason. Touring there will just make any further rhetoric from our politicians ring hollow because it'll be hypocritical.

  13. #13
    State Vice-Captain aussie_beater's Avatar
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    Wow ! hold on pals.....Mugabe has been in power for over two decades now and everybody has played cricket there over those years.....the only thing that has caused consternation recently is his land redistribution plan...yes he has muzzled dissent and opposition in the past, but there was no outcry then...so what happened now ?
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  14. #14
    International Debutant Eyes_Only's Avatar
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    I'm not sure what I think should happen but I am very concerned for the players and umpires who have to go over there (Yes including Simon!!)

    I'm not sure what I would do if it were me, but surely safety for players and officials must be a concern...

    I'm making up my mind after i see the Chairman of the ICC, Malcom Grey's press conference which will be held today.
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  15. #15
    Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Neil Pickup's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Top_Cat
    Maybe. But how can a government on one hand condemn Zimbabwe's current government and then be quite happy to send some sportsmen there? It's about maintaining a consistent position too. Touring in the current political situation does more to enhance Mugabe's position than not.

    Somehow we need to send a message to Zimbabwe that we're not happy with the current government and for good reason. Touring there will just make any further rhetoric from our politicians ring hollow because it'll be hypocritical.
    In the same way that we can continue to trade with Zimbabwe. There are no economic sanctions at all, so I'm not sure how the Government can claim with any justification that the cricket teams ought not to travel for one game of cricket whilst they're quite happily trading. And selling Arms.

    You either isolate or you don't, not halfway. Not touring would just look like a tame effort to protect Colonialism. And A_B - I think the big issue now is the "flawed" election.

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