*Official* The Zimbabwe Situation

[marc71178]

The Zimbabwe Situation

With the political situation as it is at the moment, what do you think should happen with the teams playing / refusing to play in Zimbabwe?

 

[Rik]

I was speaking to a guy who was born in Zimbabwe and goes there sometimes, and he says that it's safe in Harare but anywhere else including Bulawayo is dangerous. I doubt a Cricket Team would be attacked but you never know. It's not safe and I wouldn't go.

 

[Top_Cat]

The circket world should shun Zimbabwe as they did the South Africans during the Apartheid Movement's height and not tour there. I'm dumbfounded as to how the ICC can choose to ignore the politics of the situation. You have in power an undemocratic, megalomaniacal dictator like Robert Mugabe and we can somehow turn a blind eye to play a game or two there?

By lending legitimacy to the relations between the ICC and the Zimbabwean government you lend legitimacy to the government itself which it did not earn by a vote of the people. The world already tried to just ignore what was going on in a country when Germany hosted the 1936 games in Berlin and look what happened when Hitler was allowed to continue his governance?

Put it this way; would any team have considered touring Afghanistan if the Taliban were still in power and the World Cup was to be held there? Most importantly, could anyone really turn a blind eye to what was happening there purely to play a series of games?

 

[Rik]

Yeah good point TC, you wouldn't have anyone going to Iraq if they held the World Cup either!

 

[marc71178]

Is there precedent in the 96 World Cup?

 

[Top_Cat]

A precedent for what?

 

[Neil Pickup]

I'm going to have to disagree with you guys here.

I can see there being no way that Mugabe would allow anything to happen to any visiting Cricket team, so safety isn't a real issue here. You're in as much danger anywhere in South Africa as you would be in Zimbabwe, so I don't think that's an issue.

The political/moral problems are another issue entirely. We have a dodgy election result, but so did the USA. Hence, that's not a valid point in itself.

Human rights abuses? The Olympic Games are in Beijing in 2008, and I think that comparing ZANU-PF to the Taleban and Hitler is a little extreme as well.

Look at it from the Zimbabwean people's point of view. Sanctions don't work. Depriving them of the Cricket World Cup until 2023 won't help much.

 

[Neil Pickup]

A precedent for what?

Australia and NZ (I think) didn't play in Sri Lanka due to safety concerns because of the ongoing Tamil-Sinhalese conflict.

That was safety, this is politics. The precedent is the fact that you're not getting the points if you don't play, and in England's case, we most likely go out.

 

[Rik]

Just think about it, Mugabe is a dictator, just like Hitler and Saddam. Cricket is a game, it should not take precedence over such desisions in my opinion. Especially if human safety is concerned.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Just think about it, Mugabe is a dictator, just like Hitler and Saddam. Cricket is a game, it should not take precedence over such desisions in my opinion.

And how does isolating him help?

Nationalist Propaganda will be easy enough to manufacture and consolidate his position in charge.

The best way is to go out there and play them off the park.

 

[Rik]

And how does isolating him help?

Nationalist Propaganda will be easy enough to manufacture and consolidate his position in charge.

The best way is to go out there and play them off the park.

The best way is to not let the guy think that the whole world will allow him to get away with it. Saying "We will not come to your country" will not sit well with him.

 

[Top_Cat]

The political/moral problems are another issue entirely. We have a dodgy election result, but so did the USA. Hence, that's not a valid point in itself.

The situations are only analogous on a few levels. A general comment like 'both elections were dodgy' is completely outweighed by the human rights abuses which go on against the people in Zimbabwe, and will continue to go on whilst we pretend it doesn't happen. And to my mind, a sport's governing body must at least listen to the governments which represent the teams in their charter. I just don't see how anyone can justify going to a country like that to play a sport and completely disregard the politics of the current environment saying it has 'nothing to do with us'. As I said, you indirectly lend credibility to the government which does a lot to solidify its position in power.

If everyone made it clear they were disgusted by his government and withdrew something like sporting teams from touring there, Mugabe could claim a racial bias to his people but it won't hold for long. An inconsistent position such is happening right now could generate propaganda in finitum if Mugabe so desires. I mean, you could push the whole "They're quite happy to play games with us but not trade with us" line for years to come.

Believe me, I'm no fan of the US government but then the US government isn't quite as culpable in human rights abuses as Mugabe is on their own soil at least. Elsewhere, it's a different story of course...............

And how does isolating him help?

Nationalist Propaganda will be easy enough to manufacture and consolidate his position in charge.

Maybe. But how can a government on one hand condemn Zimbabwe's current government and then be quite happy to send some sportsmen there? It's about maintaining a consistent position too. Touring in the current political situation does more to enhance Mugabe's position than not.

Somehow we need to send a message to Zimbabwe that we're not happy with the current government and for good reason. Touring there will just make any further rhetoric from our politicians ring hollow because it'll be hypocritical.

 

[aussie_beater]

Wow ! hold on pals.....Mugabe has been in power for over two decades now and everybody has played cricket there over those years.....the only thing that has caused consternation recently is his land redistribution plan...yes he has muzzled dissent and opposition in the past, but there was no outcry then...so what happened now ?

 

[Eyes_Only]

I'm not sure what I think should happen but I am very concerned for the players and umpires who have to go over there (Yes including Simon!!)

I'm not sure what I would do if it were me, but surely safety for players and officials must be a concern...

I'm making up my mind after i see the Chairman of the ICC, Malcom Grey's press conference which will be held today.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Maybe. But how can a government on one hand condemn Zimbabwe's current government and then be quite happy to send some sportsmen there? It's about maintaining a consistent position too. Touring in the current political situation does more to enhance Mugabe's position than not.

Somehow we need to send a message to Zimbabwe that we're not happy with the current government and for good reason. Touring there will just make any further rhetoric from our politicians ring hollow because it'll be hypocritical.

In the same way that we can continue to trade with Zimbabwe. There are no economic sanctions at all, so I'm not sure how the Government can claim with any justification that the cricket teams ought not to travel for one game of cricket whilst they're quite happily trading. And selling Arms.

You either isolate or you don't, not halfway. Not touring would just look like a tame effort to protect Colonialism. And A_B - I think the big issue now is the "flawed" election.

 

[marc71178]

Personally I think they should go but won't.

In England's point of view, if we don't go and forfeit the points, then, barring a miracle that's our World Cup over.

Those 2 points are crucial if we're going to make the Super Sixes.

 

[anzac]

as per my post on the other thread on this subject......

While Mugabe has been around for a while, I think he now appears as a despot clinging to power by any means available to him. The land reclamations are a political ploy to gain majority support & the human rights issues have also surfaced as the economic issues have gotten out of hand over the past few years.

so screw them like we screwed SA - this means not only a boycott re the WC, but across the board & economic santions as well!!!! The WC cricket may well be the forum to bring the situation to a head and to draw the line in the sand. We should also be lobbying for Govts to take direct action such as sanctions etc. Granted they always hurt the population, but SA worked after a time and it's a hell of a lot better than either armed conflict or doing nothing!!!!

:!( :!( :!(

 

[anzac]

Personally I think they should go but won't.

In England's point of view, if we don't go and forfeit the points, then, barring a miracle that's our World Cup over.

Those 2 points are crucial if we're going to make the Super Sixes.

somehow if these reports are correct, then doesn't that make those issues a bit bigger than the WC or sport in general (not that England has a real chance at the title)?????

while politics & sport are never comfortable bedfellows there are plenty of precedents re politically motivated sporting boycotts from the Olympics down. Wasn't Sydney the 1st Olympics without a boycott since Munich?????

I must admit I had not been aware of the situation until brought to my attention as a result of the WC games to be played there.....

:!(

 

[marc71178]

somehow if these reports are correct, then doesn't that make those issues a bit bigger than the WC or sport in general (not that England has a real chance at the title)?????
:!(

Not a real shot at the title, but (despite what others think) a reasonable chance of the Super Sixes - if they pick up the 3 wins against ZIM, NAM and HOL.

 

[aussie_beater]

And A_B - I think the big issue now is the "flawed" election.

That's not a valid cause in my judgement.Elections are controversial all over the world and that's not reason enough for such drastic measures.