Proposal/Discussion - WCC Finance System

[Blewy]

Hey Guys,

As i mentioned in the Survey results thread i would really like to see WCC have some kind of Finance System implemented..

I agree that the system needs to be relatively simple but i also think if given the chance it could really enhance the game and the enjoyment levels of players.

So after speaking to Simon and coming up with some ideas he has asked me to put it out to you for discussion and a vote after people have had time to discuss things.

Ok so heres the proposal:

• Each team will be given a base amount of cash, to start off with i propose that these levels be even.
  
• Teams will be given Prizemoney for match wins, and League/Cup finishing positions scaled on what division you are in.
  
• Teams will also be given Sponsorship money, however Sponsorship money will be dependant on achieving season goals set by the sponsors. (Its likely that teams will be offered 3 different Sponsorship options in the pre-season each with different goals and the money will be scaled to the difficulty of the goals.
  
• An additional income source would be given by the media for providing match reports, Match previews and weekly interviews.
  
• At the Beginning of each season teams will have their allotted budget and will be asked to spread their budget between Wages and Transfer Fees. (eg. Team A has $2 million, and spread their money $800k to Wages and $1.2 Mill to Transfer Fees)
  
• Your team MUST spend at least 35% of your total Budget on wages.
  
• Transfers will no longer be player for player they will be based on Money, so to bid on a player(Still during the dedicated Transfer windows) you would use your Transfer Budget and the bid would need to be accepted by the players current manager
  
• If a bid is accepted you would then need to be able to cover the players current wage plus an additional 10% (so player A's current wage is 200k, his new wage would go to $220k)
  
• Original Wage valuations will be done by a team of say 4 or 5, each person will value every player signed to a team and then the average wage given to the player by the 4 or 5 will be that players initial wage, meaning your teams initial Wage budget will have a minimum level.
  
• Teams will also be fined by the WCC for indiscretions such as failing to submit your team or submitting an ineligible player.
  
• Any unused money in a season will be able to be retained for future seasons.
  
• All finance issues will be dealt with by a Finance team, who will keep track of all money issues and answer any questions and queries that you may have.
  

This is what Simon and i have discussed and is by no means set in stone..
Im keen to hear your thoughts good or bad.. Please dont just say i dont like it, constructive thoughts would be useful.

Also if you have any questions or are unsure of certain points just ask and ill be happy to try and explain them better.

 

[chaminda_00]

Not overly excited tbh about that proposal. Especially the basic post to get paid aspect.

Would prefer something more simple to start off with. It does seem you tried to take everything into account which is fine. But that similar to what Marc did and it didn't really work for this game.

 

[Blewy]

The post to get paid aspect would not be a massive bonus, The major income would come from Sponsorships and prizemoney for winning league etc..

 

[NZTailender]

Looks interesting, but I'm not for it. A finance system would be more trouble than it's worth IMO.

 

[Umpire Money]

I like, but the aspect where you get paid for match reports etc doesnt turn me on. I actually don't have access all the time and sometimes only for a bit...in fact I shouldn't even be online now. If everyone is getting paid for a match report that I can't do then teams are getting an advantage for something beyond my control.

so there wouldnt be a salary cap? those teams that are in the higher divisions and winning things get more money...like the premier league?

 

[Blewy]

In all fairness there were 2 reasons Marc's didnt work...

1/ Being the way he rated players value wise, Some players were getting totally under valued, whilst others way over.

and 2/ People were to lazy and not committed to put in a little more effort to make the game more in-depth and more enjoyable.

As i said before the payment for reports and previews etc would be a minimal sum, im talking something like $2000 per week, which in the grand scheme of things would be nothing. Without looking to in depth into numbers yet, achieving a top line sponsor goal would net around $750k whilst the winner of the Top Division would net around the same. so really to miss out on not putting in a few reports would mean you might come up say $50k max a season.

As i said these numbers a just estimates so dont take them as perfect but thats the scaling im thinking of...

@ Umpire - There won't be a salary cap, and teams in higher divisions will get more money however if you were to get a top player any money you get from Transfers goes into your account balance.

 

[chaminda_00]

In all fairness there were 2 reasons Marc's didnt work...

1/ Being the way he rated players value wise, Some players were getting totally under valued, whilst others way over.

and 2/ People were to lazy and not committed to put in a little more effort to make the game more in-depth and more enjoyable.

As i said before the payment for reports and previews etc would be a minimal sum, im talking something like $2000 per week, which in the grand scheme of things would be nothing. Without looking to in depth into numbers yet, achieving a top line sponsor goal would net around $750k whilst the winner of the Top Division would net around the same. so really to miss out on not putting in a few reports would mean you might come up say $50k max a season.

As i said these numbers a just estimates so dont take them as perfect but thats the scaling im thinking of...

@ Umpire - There won't be a salary cap, and teams in higher divisions will get more money however if you were to get a top player any money you get from Transfers goes into your account balance.

You think much has changed with regard to relative lazy managers. We were getting more posts on the board back then now. But Marc main problem was that it was one step too far at that stage. And I will honest I don't think game is ready for a financial system like this. I still think the best way to implement is a simple one and then build one that.

You need a cap or all that will happen is the best sides will continue to buy top players as lower clubs continue to try and make ground on lost money from less winnings and sponsorships. You will get EPL system, the strong get stronger and weak continue to rebuild.

 

[Blewy]

You think much has changed with regard to relative lazy managers. We were getting more posts on the board back then now. But Marc main problem was that it was one step too far at that stage. And I will honest I don't think game is ready for a financial system like this. I still think the best way to implement is a simple one and then build one that.

You need a cap or all that will happen is the best sides will continue to buy top players as lower clubs continue to try and make ground on lost money from less winnings and sponsorships. You will get EPL system, the strong get stronger and weak continue to rebuild.

Yes People are still lazy, but seriously the game is nothing but post your team, get your result.. That IMO is why people dont hang around, they get bored easily and pack up and leave. Doing something like this gives people more control and makes them think more. Im not saying this is the perfect system, however imo its a step forward and a step that needs to be taken otherwise in a few months time we will be back at the point where we go, hmm we have no people do we restart it with new teams or can it...

 

[chaminda_00]

Yes People are still lazy, but seriously the game is nothing but post your team, get your result.. That IMO is why people dont hang around, they get bored easily and pack up and leave. Doing something like this gives people more control and makes them think more. Im not saying this is the perfect system, however imo its a step forward and a step that needs to be taken otherwise in a few months time we will be back at the point where we go, hmm we have no people do we restart it with new teams or can it...

Don't disagree with that. But there is different ways of taking a step forward. Either take a massive step forward, or take small steps. Just think small steps are the way to go for something like this.

It about added something different, rather then changing the way the game is played. The current format has the potential to change the way the game is played. Which isn't bad if it is done over time. Not all at once.

 

[Blewy]

Well im willing to listen to suggestions.

My way of thinking though is that if your going to implement a finance system is to do it all at once, rather then have something new coming in all the time.. IMO It would not be that hard to get used to and although it would change the game and the way its played, it would only be to a certain extent. Squads arent being changed, players arent being forced to move anywhere...

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

sup I've not played the new version of wcc but i'm gonna take over kk bye

 

[Umpire Money]

Don't know if anyone else is going to voice their opinions and I don't want to step on toes but I think Tharmi has a good point.

You don't try to change lazy people, they will just go do other lazy things.

I believe that if there is going to be a financial system it has to be for the sake of evening up the game... not for the benefit of the stronger teams.
I don't know about anyone else but the EPL is boring because we know one of 3 teams are always going to win. The battle for relegation is the better battle.

Some things there are a bit complicated that might have to go over again or i should read them again.

I am happy with the game, and will be happy if it changes but if things take up more time(as i said in the survey) if it becomes more time taxing I may have to stop as at the moment only have access to internet at work.

 

[Blewy]

sup I've not played the new version of wcc but i'm gonna take over kk bye

 

[Blewy]

Don't know if anyone else is going to voice their opinions and I don't want to step on toes but I think Tharmi has a good point.

You don't try to change lazy people, they will just go do other lazy things.

I believe that if there is going to be a financial system it has to be for the sake of evening up the game... not for the benefit of the stronger teams.
I don't know about anyone else but the EPL is boring because we know one of 3 teams are always going to win. The battle for relegation is the better battle.

Some things there are a bit complicated that might have to go over again or i should read them again.

I am happy with the game, and will be happy if it changes but if things take up more time(as i said in the survey) if it becomes more time taxing I may have to stop as at the moment only have access to internet at work.

I can understand that however as i said in the original post, all finance matters would be taken care of by the proposed finance committee, thus you would not have to worry about calculations etc, All you would need to decide is how you wanted to divide the money, and then know what you had available when bidding on players..

So as for all the extra involvement i dont see it being so bad..

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

To be serious for a moment, I'm one of these "lazy" managers people are referring to and if I had to deal with all this salary and transfer fee stuff I'd probably just leave the game. I despise the system in CWXI (I don't think people really understand how annoyingly time-consuming it can be, despite it's simplicity) and adding wages as well as fees for transfers to the system would really push the time involvement through the roof. I enjoy the game as it is and I could probably manage with a CWXI-style salary cap type sytem aiming at evening out the league a little but with a full on system I'll walk away.

I also feel there's a concern regarding imbalance this will bring to the league, as others have stated. You're trying to encourage managers to become more involved, and I understand that, but this system is going to make the best sides better consistently, which will make those managers who are middle-range have less and less chances at becoming better and hence becoming less involved as they have no chance at winning anything.

 

[Blewy]

I also feel there's a concern regarding imbalance this will bring to the league, as others have stated. You're trying to encourage managers to become more involved, and I understand that, but this system is going to make the best sides better consistently, which will make those managers who are middle-range have less and less chances at becoming better and hence becoming less involved as they have no chance at winning anything.

I would disagree with this for 2 reasons..

The first being i havent given out exactly what money will be paid out where so how you can make these assumptions i dont know..

Secondly and most importantly the only difference where money is concerned is the prizemoney for finishing positions in the league which will be scaled on positions..
The Sponsorship options will be designated for each club individually meaning for a top club to get maximum value out of his sponsorship deal he would win the league, whereas for a team who is on the lower scale in Division 2 to get maximum value they would probably only have to attain a mid table finish.

This is where it could level out considerably, If the top side didnt achieve his goal and the bottom side did then thats where lower side could improve..

 

[chaminda_00]

Got some time so will go through this probably and ask questions.

[*]Teams will also be given Sponsorship money, however Sponsorship money will be dependant on achieving season goals set by the sponsors. (Its likely that teams will be offered 3 different Sponsorship options in the pre-season each with different goals and the money will be scaled to the difficulty of the goals.

I can this see meant to be leveller for mid range lower sides to catch up. But would it be possible to have fixed levels, reckon the suggested format is bit to airer fairly from how read. I might be mis read it. Say your predicted to finish in position x, finish higher or lower then you get fixed percentaged of potential sponsorship. Say 10% for example for each position in each format.

[*]An additional income source would be given by the media for providing match reports, Match previews and weekly interviews.

Don't rate this at all even if it is a min amount of income. The principle is joke imo. I don't want to read a bunch of random pointless match reports and previews just so people can get money. Defeats the whole purpose of them.

[*]At the Beginning of each season teams will have their allotted budget and will be asked to spread their budget between Wages and Transfer Fees. (eg. Team A has $2 million, and spread their money $800k to Wages and $1.2 Mill to Transfer Fees)

[*]Your team MUST spend at least 35% of your total Budget on wages.

Sound good as I'm over trading and I will just put all the money to wages. Though I still have to make pointless trades prior to the draft, just to keep numbers even.

Seriously for something like this you would probably need min and max squad numbers, rather then making everyone have 17 players. Some sides might rather use their wages for depth, some for massive superstars. Effectively though this is a cap i guess, that Jason wanted. Just not as specific as the Aussie caps, more an English Super League cap format I guess.

[*]Transfers will no longer be player for player they will be based on Money, so to bid on a player(Still during the dedicated Transfer windows) you would use your Transfer Budget and the bid would need to be accepted by the players current manager

[*]If a bid is accepted you would then need to be able to cover the players current wage plus an additional 10% (so player A's current wage is 200k, his new wage would go to $220k)

Should help make even trades, though how would draft trading come into this. Will their be basic range for each round of draft pick for trade to be accepted.

[*]Original Wage valuations will be done by a team of say 4 or 5, each person will value every player signed to a team and then the average wage given to the player by the 4 or 5 will be that players initial wage, meaning your teams initial Wage budget will have a minimum level.

based on stats or importance to a team btw?

The changes aren't as massive as I thought intially, depending on how things are implemented. Though still not for the financial side of game yet tbph.

 

[Mister Wright]

I'm always going to stick with WCC no matter where it goes, and I'm so glad it's back.

Personally, I've enjoyed the reincarnation a little more than the old one, it has been simple and there haven't been too many teams. Personally I think this proposal is too much too soon. I'm in favour of a rankings/points system, but a salary cap of this magnitude could become a little confusing.

I also think this kind of system would only work if you could sign players for a certain time period. Say you picked up a rookie and you really like their potential, you might like to sign them up for 3 years at a low level (or price) the benefit of this would be if the rookie ends up being a really good player, you basically get two years out of him at a rookie level. However if the player is a flop you have to hold on to him for two years or lose money on a trade (or a cost for releasing the player from their contract).

If something like that was introduced, that would be the only way I would be in favour of a salary cap system at this stage.

 

[Simon]

Some interesting thoughts so far, keep the opinions coming and we'll see what happens.

 

[Jamee999]

Not a fan, I still don't see why WCC needs a finance system - if it ain't broke, don't fix it!