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GROUP C - New Zealand, Sri Lanka, Kenya

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Note 'really meaningful'

Confirmed now that Fleming who's their best Twenty20 batsman by a mile isn't playing for NZ. Their odds have winning are now around that of Bangladesh's.
 
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Fiery

Banned
Note 'really meaningful'

Confirmed now that Fleming who's their best Twenty20 by a mile isn't playing for NZ. Their odds have winning are now around that of Bangladesh's.
*tee hee, knuck knuck, chortle, guffaw* Please explain how Stephen Fleming is our best 20/20 player?
 

Raghav

International Vice-Captain
Note 'really meaningful'

Confirmed now that Fleming who's their best Twenty20 by a mile isn't playing for NZ. Their odds have winning are now around that of Bangladesh's.
lol....there are many others who can perform better than him...Chris Harris is the best 20/20 specialist
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Ughh...I can't believe Chris Martin has been selected for the tournament. He averages 44 in domestic 20/20 at an economy rate of over 9.
 
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Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Taylor..Fulton can do the job...

Moreover its 20/20..its not a test match....Sloggers can do it
Taylor is just a mediocre flat track bully. Expect him to do well on roads and not much else because he's a bit of a slogger which doesn't work when the ball does something. Fulton is a solid, unremarkable bat but not much more. Not sure how that'll translate successfully into Twenty20.
 

Retox

State Vice-Captain
Note 'really meaningful'

Confirmed now that Fleming who's their best Twenty20 batsman by a mile isn't playing for NZ. Their odds have winning are now around that of Bangladesh's.
So how many times has Flem hit 50 off 25 like say McCullum or hit the fastest OD 100 by a kiwi? Oh thats right....
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
So how many times has Flem hit 50 off 25 like say McCullum or hit the fastest OD 100 by a kiwi? Oh thats right....
You mean the guy that averages 21 in List A, 23 in ODIs and has already a failed experiment as an opener in ODIs? Fantastic.

I expect he'll chip in against the rubbish, but he's out of his depth against quality bowling.
 

Retox

State Vice-Captain
You mean the guy that averages 21 in List A, 23 in ODIs and has already a failed experiment as an opener in ODIs? Fantastic.

I expect he'll chip in against the rubbish, but he's out of his depth against quality bowling.
Beacuse we all know when McCullum scores those 40s and 50s VS Aus that the bowling quality sucked
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
Beacuse we all know when McCullum scores those 40s and 50s VS Aus that the bowling quality sucked
You do realise a lot of those 40s and 50s were scored at the late overs facing many the 'quality' of Watson, Symonds, Bracken (who is a pretty average depth bowler). Until Tait came into the side they didn't really have many good depth bowlers outside McGarth. One could argue if he opened the batting during those innings he would have been rolled for under 20, more often then not. Until he scores runs up the order, i can't see how anyone can rate him that high.
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
You do realise a lot of those 40s and 50s were scored at the late overs facing many the 'quality' of Watson, Symonds, Bracken (who is a pretty average depth bowler). Until Tait came into the side they didn't really have many good depth bowlers outside McGarth. One could argue if he opened the batting during those innings he would have been rolled for under 20, more often then not. Until he scores runs up the order, i can't see how anyone can rate him that high.
It doesn't really matter where he scores the runs in one day cricket, as long as he actually scores them. You're right, in that he is a poor opening batsman, lacking the temperament and technique to succeed against top quality attacks. At the same time, he has proven himself might adept at bashing the ball around at the death, which is an important skill in the one day game. No one would ever dream of putting him in the same league as Gilchrist, Sangakkara, or even Boucher, but to suggest he's a weak player just because he struggles to open the innings is going too far.
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
His a weak player cus he averages 20 odd with the bat maybe? The fact that he averages 20 odd shows that he doesn't score runs often enough, to be classified as a decent player. Useful maybe when he gets going, but below average more often then not. Not some one your going to state is going to play a major role in winning tournments like this.
 
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Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
His a weak player cus he averages 20 odd with the bat maybe? The fact that he averages 20 odd shows that he doesn't score runs often enough, to be classified as a decent player. Useful maybe when he gets going, but below average more often then not. Not some one your going to state is going to play a major role in winning tournments like this.
He's averaged nearly 27 since he consolidated his position in the side in 2003/04. In any case, batting at number 8 limits his opportunities to make big scores. It's hard to average any more than mid 20's, when most of the time you only get 5 or 10 overs to bat.
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
He's averaged nearly 27 since he consolidated his position in the side in 2003/04. In any case, batting at number 8 limits his opportunities to make big scores. It's hard to average any more than mid 20's, when most of the time you only get 5 or 10 overs to bat.
His average is inflated by batting a bit at number 9 since his return. Batting in his usually positions at 7 and 8, he averages 23-25. Yeah its decent considering the role he plays and the fact that he hits out, but really at No 7 (where his batted the most) you do get the odd chance to push on and make some meaningful innings. But more often then not if there isn't a platform made for him from the top order he struggles to made a decent contributions. He does a good job in one role, but thats all his good for, he will never we a top line batsmen that will make significant contributions. Just a decent lower order slogger thats good for quick runs, even in Twenty20 thats not always good enough to win you matches. You need guys who can bat throughout an innings, which is something McCullum can't do yet and hasn't shown any signs of doing.
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I presume McCullum will open the batting in the Twenty20, that's why his poor record of opening the batting in ODIs is relevant here. So far McCullum has a good Twenty20 record but he's still only got a top score of 39. I don't know who else will open the batting with him, that's the sort of thing NZers will know a lot more about than me. In Twenty20 having someone bat through most of the innings makes such a difference, you will virtually always post a good total if one of the openers scores 70-80 (Fleming was more than capable of that). Even if you have batting depth you'll still slow down if you keep losing wickets - that's what I see happening to NZ, a few players chipping in but not the quality to allow them to get a good total against the sides they''ll need to beat to win this.
 

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