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Your countries worst XI this century

theegyptian

International Vice-Captain
A lot of these are selections where players have come in for a handful of Tests, been rubbish, and swiftly dumped.

I challenge anyone to come up with an XI of players who were persisted with for a reasonable length of time despite being really mediocre. Shane Watson and Martin Guptill immediately strike me as being the two best examples of what I'm looking for, although they're quite rare.

Bopara for England a decent fit.

Gogogo
Moeen on the way to joining this list unless he improves.

Has a worse batting (just) and bowling average than Watson, and is a worse fielder.
 

Bijed

International Regular
A lot of these are selections where players have come in for a handful of Tests, been rubbish, and swiftly dumped.

I challenge anyone to come up with an XI of players who were persisted with for a reasonable length of time despite being really mediocre. Shane Watson and Martin Guptill immediately strike me as being the two best examples of what I'm looking for, although they're quite rare.

Bopara for England a decent fit.

Gogogo
Moeen on the way to joining this list unless he improves.

Has a worse batting (just) and bowling average than Watson, and is a worse fielder.
I get that Moeen and Watson would look lucky to have played as many tests as they have/did from a glance at their stats, but I think it's unfair on them to call them 'really mediocre' or just mediocre. Guptill and Bopara I agree with. Could add Nick Compton, maybe Ed Cowan?
 

Bijed

International Regular
Michael Beer should consider himself very fortunate to have not been mentioned yet.
In fairness, his bowling stats are quite a bit better than, for example, Doherty & Agar, so if you're trying to do a balanced, realistic-ish XI it'd be a bit mean to include him. Not suggesting he's any good, mind.
 

JRC67

U19 12th Man
I get that Moeen and Watson would look lucky to have played as many tests as they have/did from a glance at their stats, but I think it's unfair on them to call them 'really mediocre' or just mediocre. Guptill and Bopara I agree with. Could add Nick Compton, maybe Ed Cowan?
Moeen and Watson are average test batsmen. For me the cut off is 35. Good test batsmen average over 40. Mediocre really means poor, which for me is someone in the 30 - 35 category. There have been a lot of players who have played quite a few tests who fit in to that category J P Duminy has proved very resilient. Nick Compton, Ravi Bopara, Mark Butcher and Mark Ramprakash would all qualify if one was harsh. Nasser Hussain only averages marginally more than Watson and Moeen and added nothing with the ball.
 

theegyptian

International Vice-Captain
I get that Moeen and Watson would look lucky to have played as many tests as they have/did from a glance at their stats, but I think it's unfair on them to call them 'really mediocre' or just mediocre. Guptill and Bopara I agree with. Could add Nick Compton, maybe Ed Cowan?
Yes I actually don't mind Watson and think he gets an occasional bad deal on here for his test performances. I think he did ok in test cricket and like Moeen filled a few different roles in his career. People just remember the lbws and suchlike. I was just illustrating the point that if Watson is included then Ali is also a candidate.

Watson is pretty mediocre though in terms of Aussie players that have played so many games in recent times but that's a very high standard. Moeen's figures aren't too bad comparatively to former England players. Giles, Embury and Tuffnell averaged 41, 38 and 38 with the ball respectively and they are 3rd, 4th and 5th in the England spin bowling wicket taker list since the 1980s started.
 

theegyptian

International Vice-Captain
Moeen and Watson are average test batsmen. For me the cut off is 35. Good test batsmen average over 40. Mediocre really means poor, which for me is someone in the 30 - 35 category. There have been a lot of players who have played quite a few tests who fit in to that category J P Duminy has proved very resilient. Nick Compton, Ravi Bopara, Mark Butcher and Mark Ramprakash would all qualify if one was harsh. Nasser Hussain only averages marginally more than Watson and Moeen and added nothing with the ball.
Moeen has scored most of his runs at 7. Hussain 3 + 4. Hussain did offer a lot as captain. Hard to compare eras also (although I did just kind of do thatin my previous post).
 

Bijed

International Regular
Based on the above few posts, I've now consulted this list to arrive at my England post-01/01/2001 'Wasn't very good but still played 10 tests XI'. 10 tests is of course a bit of an arbitrary cut-off but seemed reasonable enough to me

NRD Compton
AD Hales
RS Bopara
RTW Key
MR Ramprakash
EJG Morgan
GO Jones
CL White
AF Giles
AU Rashid
LE Plunkett

Tried to keep it as a 'feasible' XI but found in the end the my criteria didn't leave much room for anything else. You may notice that Atherton averaged 23 in the period specified, but I left him off the list as it represented a relatively short time at the end of his long and otherwise decent test career.
 

JRC67

U19 12th Man
Based on the above few posts, I've now consulted this list to arrive at my England post-01/01/2001 'Wasn't very good but still played 10 tests XI'. 10 tests is of course a bit of an arbitrary cut-off but seemed reasonable enough to me

NRD Compton
AD Hales
RS Bopara
RTW Key
MR Ramprakash
EJG Morgan
GO Jones
CL White
AF Giles
AU Rashid
LE Plunkett

Tried to keep it as a 'feasible' XI but found in the end the my criteria didn't leave much room for anything else. You may notice that Atherton averaged 23 in the period specified, but I left him off the list as it represented a relatively short time at the end of his long and otherwise decent test career.
It's always going to be a bit arbitrary. I'd say a couple of those were average rather than mediocre. But then playing 10 tests or more generally means a player isn't completely rubbish.
 

JRC67

U19 12th Man
Moeen has scored most of his runs at 7. Hussain 3 + 4. Hussain did offer a lot as captain. Hard to compare eras also (although I did just kind of do thatin my previous post).
Hussain was a decent rather than good batsman and a good captain who got a little more from his team than the parts. I'd say he's is just a player from the modern era. It's hard to compare players who are still playing as you don't know how their career will finish. If Moeen has another year like this one with the bat you'd say he was pretty decent, but it's equally feasible he won't make it as far as Australia.
 

listento_me

U19 Captain
Moeen and Watson are average test batsmen. For me the cut off is 35. Good test batsmen average over 40. Mediocre really means poor, which for me is someone in the 30 - 35 category. There have been a lot of players who have played quite a few tests who fit in to that category J P Duminy has proved very resilient. Nick Compton, Ravi Bopara, Mark Butcher and Mark Ramprakash would all qualify if one was harsh. Nasser Hussain only averages marginally more than Watson and Moeen and added nothing with the ball.
Ali has hit 4 centuries, 5 50s, scored over a 1000 runs and managed an average of 46 or so this year. Two of those centuries have come at 7...7 man. The guy is damn talented, stylish, has flair and can only get better as a batsman (is already deserving of a slot at 4 or 5) but he can also win matches for England. He is one of those players who contributes with the bat almost every time England win. This year alone he averages in excess of 80 in test matches won. Many of those matches he has had to prop up the tail. Moeen Ali the batsman is anything but mediocre. As a bowler...fair enough lol
 

JRC67

U19 12th Man
Ali has hit 4 centuries, 5 50s, scored over a 1000 runs and managed an average of 46 or so this year. Two of those centuries have come at 7...7 man. The guy is damn talented, stylish, has flair and can only get better as a batsman (is already deserving of a slot at 4 or 5) but he can also win matches for England. He is one of those players who contributes with the bat almost every time England win. This year alone he averages in excess of 80 in test matches won. Many of those matches he has had to prop up the tail. Moeen Ali the batsman is anything but mediocre. As a bowler...fair enough lol
You've got to judge him over his whole career. He's had a good 2016 and his overall record is better than mediocre but not good. I'd say average test player is a fair assessment of his career to date. It could rise to good in 2017, or he could end his career this year as unfulfilled to a degree if he has a poor summer. I quite like him and hope he's learned from some of the mistakes he's made and has a decent 2017. He does need to stop playing the hook shot though.
 

Gnske

Hall of Fame Member
Ali has hit 4 centuries, 5 50s, scored over a 1000 runs and managed an average of 46 or so this year. Two of those centuries have come at 7...7 man. The guy is damn talented, stylish, has flair and can only get better as a batsman (is already deserving of a slot at 4 or 5) but he can also win matches for England. He is one of those players who contributes with the bat almost every time England win. This year alone he averages in excess of 80 in test matches won. Many of those matches he has had to prop up the tail. Moeen Ali the batsman is anything but mediocre. As a bowler...fair enough lol
And yet even I can play the short ball better.

The guy is the exact opposite to Ashwin when it comes to cricketing brains.
 

JRC67

U19 12th Man
And yet even I can play the short ball better.

The guy is the exact opposite to Ashwin when it comes to cricketing brains.
He played the short ball really well from the 4th test in South Africa onwards in not playing the short ball unless it was wide of off stump. Whether it was macho posturing on 120 not out or just stupidity that caused him to start playing the hook shot again I've no idea.

The other frustration I have with him is how often he gets out at the start of a new spell trying to dominate a new bowler. Yes he's an attacking batsman but he should give himself an over to get used to the pace and angle of delivery.
 

Gnske

Hall of Fame Member
Moeen on the way to joining this list unless he improves.

Has a worse batting (just) and bowling average than Watson, and is a worse fielder.
Worse body too, can't even maintain a Herculean physique while being dire as hell like Shane managed.
 

adub

International Captain
Aussie Not That Great 11 of the 21st Century with 10+ Chances to Not be Ordinary.

1. Cowan
2. Hughes
3. Watson
4. M Waugh
5. North
6. M Marsh
7. Wade
8. Lee
9. Hauritz
10. Siddle
11. Kasprowicz

Which tbf isn't diabolical, just very susceptible to getting absolutely flogged by good teams.
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Minimum 5 Matches

NZ XI
1. MJ Horne
2. MJ Papps
3. AJ Redmond
4. JM How
5. JAH Marshall
6. GD Elliott
7. RG Hart+
8. PJ Wiseman
9. BP Martin
10. MJ Henry
11. BJ Arnel

12. Post 2006-James Franklin
 

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
Aussie Not That Great 11 of the 21st Century with 10+ Chances to Not be Ordinary.

1. Cowan
2. Hughes
3. Watson
4. M Waugh
5. North
6. M Marsh
7. Wade
8. Lee
9. Hauritz
10. Siddle
11. Kasprowicz

Which tbf isn't diabolical, just very susceptible to getting absolutely flogged by good teams.
You've ruined my Christmas. Hilfenhaus is very lucky.
 

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