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Wisden's Greatest Post War England XI

a massive zebra

International Vice-Captain
Wisden's Greatest Post War England XI

Len Hutton (cpt)
Graham Gooch
Peter May
Denis Compton
Ken Barrington
Ian Botham
Alan Knott (wk)
Jim Laker
Fred Trueman
Alec Bedser
Derek Underwood

I very rarely agree with the selection of these types of teams picked by 'experts', but in this case they are bang on. The only change I would make is Boycott for Gooch (he has not been made captain and averaged just 35 as non-captain).
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
Boycott was a selfish idiot, who should not be allowed anywhere near an 'All Time XI'.

Plus, Gooch is class. :D
 

wpdavid

International Coach
a massive zebra said:
Wisden's Greatest Post War England XI

Len Hutton (cpt)
Graham Gooch
Peter May
Denis Compton
Ken Barrington
Ian Botham
Alan Knott (wk)
Jim Laker
Fred Trueman
Alec Bedser
Derek Underwood

I very rarely agree with the selection of these types of teams picked by 'experts', but in this case they are bang on. The only change I would make is Boycott for Gooch (he has not been made captain and averaged just 35 as non-captain).
Gooch's selection is extraordinary, as it's effectively based on 4 good years out of a 19 year test career. Not sure about Bedser, who was admittedly excellent in England but I suspect his stats elsewhere weren't so impressive. Tyson would have been my choice as the second quick.

Botham at 6 is a tough one. In his best years, he was batting at 7 and, by the time he was in the top 6 he was in decline and didn't merit a place in any sort of Greatest XI. Greig would be a better bet at 6, but his bowling wasn't as good as Beefy's.
 

a massive zebra

International Vice-Captain
wpdavid said:
Not sure about Bedser, who was admittedly excellent in England but I suspect his stats elsewhere weren't so impressive.
AV Bedser

in Australia 11 3827 1489 47 31.68 5/46 2.33 81.4 2 1
in England 32 9700 3600 167 21.55 7/44 2.22 58.0 13 4
in New Zealand 3 738 233 6 38.83 4/95 1.89 123.0 0 0
in South Africa 5 1653 554 16 34.62 4/39 2.01 103.3 0 0

You have been proved correct.
 

Nedved's Fan

Cricket Spectator
Was Botham either one of the six best batsmen or five best bowlers? In a team of this kind, would not a specialist be a better bet?

As it stands, four bowlers would be enough. Bedser, Laker and Underwood typically bowled long spells, and if necessary could be relieved by Gooch, Compton or Barrington.

I'd have Dexter in place of Botham.
 

Swervy

International Captain
wpdavid said:
Gooch's selection is extraordinary, as it's effectively based on 4 good years out of a 19 year test career. Not sure about Bedser, who was admittedly excellent in England but I suspect his stats elsewhere weren't so impressive. Tyson would have been my choice as the second quick.

Botham at 6 is a tough one. In his best years, he was batting at 7 and, by the time he was in the top 6 he was in decline and didn't merit a place in any sort of Greatest XI. Greig would be a better bet at 6, but his bowling wasn't as good as Beefy's.
so you would choose Tyson over Bedser even though Tyson only played 17 tests,,,but you wouldnt choose Gooch because he was only good for 4 years (even though in reality he was one of the very best batsmen in the world for a good 7 or 8 years, if not longer)
 

Swervy

International Captain
Nedved's Fan said:
Was Botham either one of the six best batsmen or five best bowlers? In a team of this kind, would not a specialist be a better bet?

As it stands, four bowlers would be enough. Bedser, Laker and Underwood typically bowled long spells, and if necessary could be relieved by Gooch, Compton or Barrington.

I'd have Dexter in place of Botham.
Botham was the best allrounder England have produced without a doubt since the war...cant really beleive there is a debate brewing about whether he should be in this XI
 

aussie_beater

State Vice-Captain
My opinion is Statham should be in place of Bedser. He was more reliable and his accuracy was legendary.He was the McGrath of his time.IMO, Tyson played too little to be considered in the best post-war team for England
 

a massive zebra

International Vice-Captain
Jamee999 said:
No Freddy or Harmison! :P:D;)
Flintoff has only been successful for around 12 months, he has yet to dominate a top class side, and his overall career record is still no better than average.

The first two points could also be thrown at Harmison.
 

a massive zebra

International Vice-Captain
aussie_beater said:
My opinion is Statham should be in place of Bedser. He was more reliable and his accuracy was legendary.He was the McGrath of his time.IMO,
Bedser is generally rated higher by most people who saw them both.
 

aussie_beater

State Vice-Captain
a massive zebra said:
Bedser is generally rated higher by most people who saw them both.
Actually Statham gets less credit because he played mostly under the shadow of Trueman and with Trueman being such a character, Statham almost went unnoticed in most occasions. But he was the perfect foil for Trueman to perform his heroics while Statham kept doing his steady line and length job on the other side. Bedser didn't have to contend for space with anyone like that. And as someone pointed out earlier, he was not the best when playing outside of England.
 

aussie_beater

State Vice-Captain
Swervy said:
Of course averages dont tell the full story do they..... :D
Now that you reminded me, I checked to see that Statham beats Bedser statistically too, and that after playing 20 more matches then Bedser.

I saw some footage of Statham and Trueman operating in tandem in a TV series that Gavaskar did in India long time ago in the 80s, and Statham apeared to be no less then Trueman except that Trueman had the aggression going for him and Statham was more subdued in a sense.
 

Anil

International Coach
a massive zebra said:
Wisden's Greatest Post War England XI

Len Hutton (cpt)
Graham Gooch
Peter May
Denis Compton
Ken Barrington
Ian Botham
Alan Knott (wk)
Jim Laker
Fred Trueman
Alec Bedser
Derek Underwood

I very rarely agree with the selection of these types of teams picked by 'experts', but in this case they are bang on. The only change I would make is Boycott for Gooch (he has not been made captain and averaged just 35 as non-captain).
wouldn't gower merit a mention in an all-time xi?
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Tom Halsey said:
Boycott was a selfish idiot, who should not be allowed anywhere near an 'All Time XI'.

Conveniently ignoring his Test record which was superb, and far better than the Essex man.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Nedved's Fan said:
Was Botham either one of the six best batsmen or five best bowlers? In a team of this kind, would not a specialist be a better bet?
No to both, but was there a better all round player who provides so much more to the side than a mere specialist?

Any England All Time side without Botham is either a) wrong, or b) in 5 or 6 years time (assuming Flintoff continues from the last year for another 5 or 6 years)
 

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